Self Defense?

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

Moderator: Van Canna

Self Defense?

Postby Jason Rees » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:14 am

Check this out.

A cashier at a McDonald’s on West Fourth Street in Manhattan was captured on video savagely beating two female customers with a metal rod on Oct. 13, 2011.


I love that. Journalism is a farce these days. At what point do customers vault a counter and attack someone?

The blog I got that link from claims that even if he killed the two it was justified. We all know that doesn't square with legal reality. However, we also know what adrenaline can do to somebody under attack. So with a good lawyer, can this man make the case that he acted in self-defense, and get a not guilty verdict?

McIntosh, 31, was arrested and charged with two counts of felony assault and criminal possession of a weapon while the two women were charged with menacing, disorderly conduct and trespassing.


Menacing. Disorderly conduct. Yeah, take that. :oops:

-----
Later...

Ok, I finally got to see the video. That camera is in a horrible spot. You can't see what the two women were doing once they were on the floor behind the counter. Wow, that rod got bent. I think he's screwed.
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.
User avatar
Jason Rees
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:45 pm

http://wishididntknow.com/2011/10/15/sh ... g-slapped/

Check this out. The cashier has a history of 10 years in jail for a killing.

This is a case of excessive force no matter how you spin it.

Put yourself in the jury box: would you call it self defense, after you watch the video?

He may well have been provoked and assaulted behind the counter, but did he use 'reasonable force'...did he act as a reasonable man would have acted under similar circumstances?
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Jason Rees » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:35 pm

Van Canna wrote:http://wishididntknow.com/2011/10/15/shock-video-%E2%80%93-cashier-attacks-2-female-customers-with-metal-rod-after-being-slapped/

Check this out. The cashier has a history of 10 years in jail for a killing.
Yeah, I saw that afterward.

This is a case of excessive force no matter how you spin it.
Yup.

Put yourself in the jury box: would you call it self defense, after you watch the video?
Nope.

He may well have been provoked and assaulted behind the counter, but did he use 'reasonable force'...did he act as a reasonable man would have acted under similar circumstances?
Nope.

The video doesn't even really show the two women physically assaulting him, either. Yeah, he's earned his ticket back to the big house.
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.
User avatar
Jason Rees
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:41 am

The video does show that the cashier got 'bitch slapped' pretty good in front of people and coworkers.

For an ex con macho man…this is pretty hard to take.

Would any of us take it and keep emotionally calm and act rationally under the control of the primal brain? The so called 'monkey brain' ?

Let's think about the times we may have been in the trap of the monkey brain now and then. It can happen in person, on the phone, or on the forums...we have seen this happen on mine quite often.

In any fighting situation, whether or not you know you are being videotaped, the monkey brain is in control, you cannot think rationally, for the most part, and you will get into all kinds of trouble.

What was the cashier really defending at the point he came under assault by the two women and kept hitting a downed assailant with a metal bar?

Was he really defending from a threat to his body or was he 'defending' against his pride, self respect, self esteem, social status in a public setting?

His emotional self had come under attack….his monkey brain could not allow that to happen and he responded with monkey violence.
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Jason Rees » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:50 am

Just a little background info:
The reason he was in jail for 10 years was an accidental discharge, which struck his friend and a girl while he was showing off a handgun.
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.
User avatar
Jason Rees
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:52 am

Marc Mc Young explores this very well…Rory does the same in his books.

We can also create conditions for physical violence to erupt when we do things to someone, such as getting into his face, verbally and emotionally attacking, threatening him, insulting him, etc.

Then when violence follows we plead self defense. Good luck.

In any conflict that escalates or threatens to escalate into horrible violence, we must learn to recognize when 'The monkey is in the building'

See this:
http://www.conflictcommunications.com/m ... ilding.htm

But the bad news are that we will be totally emotionally high-jacked to do much about it for the most part.
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:04 am

The problem with monkey brain 'wins' is that, while they protect our status, pride and self-esteem, they do nothing to fix the original issue that degenerated into a fight. So the problem is still there, as is the desire of the 'loser' to regain loss of face.
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:08 am

The second issues is you need to recognize when your monkey brain is engaged. That doesn't just mean recognizing when you're becoming emotional, but when you're fighting for something other than what you tell yourself.

This is actually harder than it sounds because emotions happen faster than conscious thought. We have an emotion, and it is instantly reflected in our body language, micro expressions, word choice and tone.

And those can -- and often do -- trigger the other person's monkey brain reactions. So now, instead of one angry monkey, you have two.

This is why we say "de-escalate yourself first."

If you're interested in resolving conflicts and de-escalating situations before they become battles, knowing when the monkey is in the room is a critical skill.

Because, unlike the rock star and his entourage, the monkey doesn't make a big entrance. It will quietly enter the room. And often you won't notice its presence until people are swinging from the ceiling fans and screaming at each other.


Image
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:12 am

http://isshindo.blogspot.com/2011/05/mo ... ining.html

Monkey Brain Training

You have heard this before, the monkey brain. If you read the sites I have posted on as well as the books concerning violence, self-defense, etc. you would have recognized the use of "monkey brain" many, many times.

The more I learn. The more research I do. I am finding that for me, the male species, training ourselves to keep the monkey brain in its cage is really a critical training component of the martial arts with emphasis on using it for self-defense.

It would seem in many of the stories I have heard, seen, read, etc the interaction resulting in a fight is always a result of one, the other or both parties losing control to the monkey brain.

Do you have a topic in your self-defense instruction that promotes learning how to keep the monkey out of it? Sometimes hitting an obstacle head-on is necessary. Controlling the monkey may be one of them, it is for me.
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:17 am

Logic Brain, Monkey Brain and Lizard Brain = One Mind; No mind; Present Mind

When I tell someone I strive to achieve one mind in practice I speak of many aspects of which this post will present to you, the reader, one aspect. I have written about being present, in the moment, in the present moment as well as mushin, zanshin and wu-wei - all making some reference to achieving a singular mind in life, practice and training where these three equal application in combat.

Self-defense, Self-protection and Self-preservation all mean "one" thing. What that one thing means to the individual is the journey they must take to find the answer.

One mind is the training a person does to take all three brains and bring them into that one mind where the logic brain assumes control of the monkey and allowing its connection to apply the lizard brain and those derived appropriate tactics to avoid damage. This seems simple when you read this sentence but it is the most difficult thing humans can do and achieve.

This is important and worth considerable contemplation.
Shimabuku, Shinsho (Ciso) Sensei of Isshinryu

http://isshindo.blogspot.com/2011/09/lo ... izard.html
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Jake Steinmann » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:31 pm

Huh. Lot of stuff going on there. The cashier definitely went to too much force, way to quickly.

I think there's also a lesson in here about not picking fights unnecessarily...I really doubt that confrontation went the way those two women planned when they were going over the counter.

What about the bystanders? Employees, customers...there were opportunities to intervene. No one did.
User avatar
Jake Steinmann
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Newton, MA

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Van Canna » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:14 pm

Good points Jake.

In my work, I have investigated many such incidents on the job.

Intervention by fellow employees or bystanders is usually not the case or it comes very late because most people who witness real violence go into mental shock, are not able to think clearly and or see themselves falling prey as well with no help.

One case I had illustrates the point: A woman is sent home by her supervisor for ignoring his warnings about chronic tardiness.


She goes home crying_ her 260 lbs ...drug dealer husband...invades her place of employment...enters the office of the supervisor...locks the door/glass window behind him...pulls the supervisor [ a Marine Vietnam vet] from his chair and slams him against the wall with such force that the guy is KO'd and suffers a broken shoulder.

Then the husband proceeds to abuse him verbally.

Fellow employees respond, try to 'open the door' but 'could not find a key'...so they stand there outside the door in a panic state.

When I went to the scene and checked the door...I found that it could have been opened with a good shoulder shove.

I was told by the fellow employees that 'nobody thought of it' ....

Not so...I could tell they were very scared of the man inside.

Also intervention by anyone brings some serious consequences because you will be second guessed all the way around.

Same situation, once before posted here, about a karate black belt who had his throat cut while yelling for help in an Apt. Bldg. by his girl friend's ex [ a Jamaican gangbanger] who had ambushed him on the stairs on the black belt way home one night.

Tenants I interviewed told me they frozen in fear and afraid to open their apartment doors to see what was going on.

They were even afraid to call the police.

Tenants eventually flagged down a passing security car.
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 44661
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Jason Rees » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:38 pm

Just as a follow-up note...

All charges against the man have been dropped.
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.
User avatar
Jason Rees
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Self Defense?

Postby Jake Steinmann » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:13 pm

Interesting.
User avatar
Jake Steinmann
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Newton, MA

Re: Self Defense?

Postby robb buckland » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:58 pm

Thanks Jake.
FEARS Ltd
"Art meets Reality"
www.fearsltd.com
User avatar
robb buckland
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: Wells Beach , Me.

Next

Return to Van Canna's Self Defense Realities

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests