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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 1999 3:21 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA
Well, I have seen people argue guns for self defense, hunting etc. This is not what the founders of our nation had in mind with the Second Amendment. In his column yesterday, Dr. Walt Williams posted the true meaning, supported by quotes by George Washington and other Framers of our constitution: It is meant to prevent tyranny by our government.

Some quotes:

-George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty piece and keystone under independence."

-Thomas Jefferson: "And what country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms...."

-Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially the young, how to use them."

If those that feel the Second Amendment should be repealed were not cowards, they would seek an new amendment to abolish it. Instead, they choose to pick away at it piecemeal as they seek ever greater control of our lives.

Any thoughts out there?

Rich

[This message has been edited by RACastanet (edited 05-29-99).]


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 1999 1:14 am 
<font color=blue>"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword, is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
<font color=red>

--Tench Coxe 1788


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Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 1999 5:15 am 
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Good afternoon Rich,

You wrote < If those that feel the Second Amendment should be repealed were
not cowards >

In Louisville , a liquor store owner was charged with manslaughter when he killed an armed thug invading his store ! Citizens , country wide , are being pilloried for defending their own lives against the greatest outrages and have become stigmatized in a small but influential segment of American society living in the safety of their Ivory towers !


Jeffrey Snider, in his essay " A nation of cowards " …. < Crime is rampant because the law abiding , each of us, condone it , excuse it , submit to it .We permit it and encourage it because we do not fight back immediately , then and there, where it happens ….The defect is there , on our characters . We [ US] are a Nation of cowards and shirkers . >

The lesson such cowards will never learn is that the bill of rights does not grant rights to the people ; the bill of rights is the list of fundamental ,inalienable rights endowed in man by his creator , that define what it means to be free and independent and master of his own destiny ! The second amendment only ratified such rights !

Such cowards are all pervasive on our landscape infiltrating all walks of life [ martial arts included] and attempting to influence and abolish our prime natural right to self defense !

Peace ,


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Van Canna


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 1999 7:57 pm 
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Location: Florida
This is a most interesting thread and certainly poignant on this Memorial Day, as we are to reflect as a nation on the honored sacrifice of our ancestors and family.

I would like to thank all the veterans, including my father, but especially those who returned wounded, disabled or not at all.

As martialists, we can debate the matters and reason why, but as warriors, your's was to do or die. I salute and bow to you all.


JohnC


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 1999 9:03 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA
Good note JohnC. My dad and 3 uncles participated in WW2 and returned. My mother-in-law's brother was lost at the 'Bulge' at the age of 18. My dad's Eisenhower jacket, still in my possesion, has 6 bars on the sleeve. I believe that meant 30 months overseas. Also, his campaign medal has 5 battle stars (Van - Sicily, Palermo, Monte Casino.....). This took place before his 21st birthday. As he was a combat veteran, our family received a flag upon his death back in 1980. I have that here as well.

Here is an appropriate quote from the era: 'Lucky for rulers that men do not think.'
(Adolf Hitler)

Gotta go, my eyes are getting misty.

Rich

[This message has been edited by RACastanet (edited 05-31-99).]


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 1999 10:53 pm 
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Rich:

Yours is quite a post! What a family legacy to be shared today!

Sadly, I never really appreciated my dad's WWII efforts, his purple heart and silver star, until I got older. Now, I too will want possession of his military blouse, rank stripes, campaign clusters and medals when ...

War is hell waged by single men, each with a story to tell. Too often we think of war in global terms, as an historical artifact.

I'll be joining you with misty eyes the Memorial Day my Dad is gone.

JohnC


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 1999 10:54 pm 
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[This message has been edited by JohnC (edited 05-31-99).]


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 1999 11:18 pm 
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John C. - san and Rich -san ,

" How strangely high endeavors may be blessed , where piety and valor jointly go " __ { Dryden }

May God forever smile upon your loved ones ! You have my deepest respects !
It has been written that courage means a strong desire to live taking the form of a readiness to die ; the form of every virtue at the testing point , which means at the point of highest reality ! Valor gives awe and a promise of heart and strength among men of lofty ideals and makes the authority of a master buck in a numerous herd !


And for our esteemed pacifists in 'extremis' …… " It is useless for the sheep to pass resolution in favour of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion " { William Ralph Inge }


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Van Canna


[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited 05-31-99).]

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited 05-31-99).]


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 12:24 am 
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JohnC: Interestingly enough, my family could have had a 'Private Ryan' scenario. In the scene where the bad news is delivered to the mother of the Ryans, a flag in the window shows 4 stars. My grandparents had that in their kitchen window into the 60's. I wonder what became of that. I wonder how many moviegoers saw it and recognized what it meant.

I have many artifacts of WW2, including a genuine Swastika armband, a Japanese (kamikaze?) rice cloth rising sun flag, hundreds of pictures......... Also, my dad's dog tag, discharge papers, a whole box of vmail that he sent my mom covering the Italian campaign (much was censored). And there was much more that was trashed or given to us kids to play with and eventually lose. Yes, I even have a picture of me wearing a genuine german helmet!

BTW, my dad's jacket still has a Lucky Strike cigarette in the pocket. Talk about irony - he died of lung cancer.

Rich


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 4:05 am 
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Van san:


Thank you so much for your heartfelt reply.


Rich san:


Yea, my dad smoked Lucky's too ...


JohnC


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 4:08 am 
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Location: Portsmouth,NH,US
A Memorial Day note,

After the five minute parade of precious few veterans, then the high school band, cub, boy, and girl scouts, the speaker for our small town's Memorial Day ceremony recalled the fact that our militia is composed of "citizen soldiers." His address continued, far different from previous ones I have heard, to question the appropriateness of American military actions since WWII. Every year of Memorial Day observance brings me closer to my relatives who served, farther from the weird dissociation of growing up in the sixties and seventies. Yes, the politics are and always have been open to question (recall that Memorial Day was created to memorialize those who died in the Civil War.) But the fact that citizens have willingly chosen to make the supreme sacrifice should not be diluted.

Van et al, I hope you will excuse this brief diversion from the central topic. There was just something compelling about the "citizen soldier" theme this year that seemed to fit into this thread.

Michael


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 4:54 am 
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Dear Dr. Knight { Michael -san } ,

Your diversions seem to always be apropos ` ….. I enjoy reading your words very much and I feel honored when you post on my forum !

Citizen soldiers ……those brave souls that carry their lives in their hands , so we may go on , will never walk alone and will always carry the grace of God in their hearts !

You are a brave man by the way you laid it on the line when fighting the green belt division !

God be with your family always !


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Van Canna


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 5:05 am 
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Rich ,

Not too many smart politicians or legal minds are really fond of taking on the second amendment as they are sure to receive a severe trouncing in the long run !

Most dissenters are ill prepared to debate and to garner an in-depth understanding of the constitutional right to arms ! Esteemed law professor Don B. Kates , Jr. , whom I had the privilege to meet in person and exchange impressions , writes that , for example, the enemies of the second amendment are fond of quoting out of context Washington's adverse comments about the militia as substitute for a regular army composed of professional soldiers !

A question to the hoplophobes : " If unilateral disarmament is rational , why do the people not give up their guns voluntarily ? " { Criminologist Franklin E. Zimring }

The intellectually crippled pacifists of our time are fond of imposing their harmful philosophy upon an entire society by the Expedient of " beleaguered liberties " !

What they will never understand, in their pettifoggery , is, that it is the second amendment that guarantees all of the other freedoms of the people !


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Van Canna


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 4:29 pm 
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Rich, I was helping my 14 YO daughter with her history yesterday and it was about the Constitution. The PC, liberal publisher wrote a general synopsis of each amendment next to each one. The second amendment they say gives state's the right to recruit a militia and train them in the use of firearms. WHAT???? I'm the last person in the world to own a gun but I nearly puked when I read that twisted crap! They were, however, very kind to their treatment of the 1st amendment as it has a direct bearing on their livelyhood.

BTW, Rich did you happen to notice a gross mistake in script continuity in "Saving Private Ryan" in the same scene you mentioned? Write me at K_mackie@hotmail.com and I'll let you know as not to bog down the forum.

VTY

Kevin


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 1999 7:05 pm 
"One of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no
matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to
keep and bear arms - just one guarantee against arbitrary
government, one more safe-guard against the tyranny which now
appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to
be always possible."
--Senator Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960

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Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 06-01-99).]


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