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 Post subject: Through a Rapist's Eyes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:36 pm 
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I don't know if there are any women who are active on this forum but someone posted this on Facebook so I thought that I would share it here.

"THROUGH A RAPIST'S EYES"

It seems that a lot of attackers use some tactic to get away with violence. Not many people know how to take care of themselves when faced with such a situation. Everyone should read this especially each and every girl in this world.

THOUGHT THIS WAS GOOD INFO TO PASS ALONG...

Through a rapist's eyes! A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

1] The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun! , braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2] The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3] They also look for women using their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4] The number one place women are abducted from / attacked at is grocery store parking lots.

5] Number two is office parking lots/garages.

6] Number three is public restrooms.

7] The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

8] If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9] These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

10] Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

POINTS THAT WE SHOULD REMEMBER:

1] If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now that you've seen their faces and could identify them in a line- up, you lose appeal as a target.

2] If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

3] If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

4] If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can do it by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and
armpit or in the upper inner thigh - HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it really hurts.

5] After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause him a lot of
trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

6] When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked
audibly.

7] Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, and go with your instincts. You may feel little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

FINALLY, PLEASE REMEMBER THESE AS WELL....

I know you are smart enough to know these pointers but there will be some, where you will go "hmm I must remember that" After reading, forward it to someone you care about, never hurts to be careful in
this crazy world we live in.

1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do: The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do it.

2. Learned this from a tourist guide to New Orleans: if a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it away from you.... chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you and he will go for the wallet/purse. RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car: Kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

4. Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit
(doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc. DON'T DO THIS! The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU CLOSE the DOORS, LEAVE!

5. A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking garage:

a. Be aware: look around your car as someone may be hiding at the passenger side, peek into your car, inside the passenger side floor, and in the back seat. (DO THIS TOO BEFORE RIDING A TAXI CAB).

b. If you are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

c. Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard /policeman to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.)

6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).

7. If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; and even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. RUN!

8. As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP IT! It may get you raped, or killed. Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well educated man, who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.

I'd like you to forward this to all the women you know. It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle. I was going to send this to the ladies only, but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc., you may want to pass it onto them, as well.

Send this to any woman you know that may need to be reminded that the world we live in has a lot of crazies in it and it's better safe than sorry.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:58 am 
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Well intentioned post Mark but I have some issues with it and I wouldn't send it out as advice.

Actually re reading this post I'm wrong lots of good advice here!

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Last edited by Feur on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Interesting thread, thank you. Laird, would be able to post the issues you have with it?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Actually re read the list this morning and in the light of day makes more sense than it did last night. Good post Mark, I even learned a few things, and it's tough to teach old dogs anything. :?

I had an initial negative reaction to the advice of running from the gun and the statistical data supporting the decision to flee. However after giving it some thought I've come to the conclusion it's very sound advice. The perps intention is not to shoot the victim but rather to transport them to a 2nd crime scene where they can have their way with them and then dispose of the body at their leisure.

Debecker tells us that 90% of victims transported to a 2nd crime scene are never seen alive again. So the victim is pretty much a corpse what do they have to lose.

I shoot 12,000 to 20,000 rounds of pistol ammo each year, so my initial reaction to the claim of most folks can't hit a moving target was denial. But then I started reflecting on the number of competitors that can't hit moving steel plate. I have to admit that even highly trained individuals have more difficulty as the task of shooting is increased in complexity , longer shots and moving shots do offer a significant challenge.

The last thing the perp wants is to draw intention to them selves so they may just flee the scene rather than call attention to themselves by firing shots. Then again if they identify them they may be very intent on killing the fleeing victim. It's a crap shoot. The victim however is pretty much dead if they comply.

Personally I have a hard time getting my head around it. I don't know if I'd get shot running or shot trying to grab the gun, but I do know I wouldn't be going with the perp. I've been robbed a few times at gun point don't like looking down the wrong end of a gun. But give them the money and the insurance company sorts things out. Abduction is a whole different kettle of fish.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:46 pm 
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No sorry, I do not agree. From everything I have studied over the years … actual books and reports by law enforcement, FBI and psychologists on rape and actual interviews of prisoners and criminal profiling experts, this info is completely bogus.
The initial rapist list has been passed around for years and years on-line with slight variations. All of which are bad information and dangerous to those that follow the advice. We have gone over this multiple times on the women’s forum.

Mark,,, I don’t mean to burst your well intentioned bubble but this entire posting is mostly bad or misinformed advice.
It’s sad that people will read postings like this on face book and apply them to their martial arts/ self defense class thinking that the info is accurate.

I am more than willing to counter these lists and shoot them down point for point but that is a tall order and a lot of writing if no one is actually interested, you could also look up old postings about this on the women’s forum. I have written there extensively on this subject about 6 years ago. Not sure how far back you can search.

If anyone is actually interested I will post here or will respond to a PM if you want.

Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:07 pm 
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I'd be interested in your comments Steve.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Hoshin - maybe point out the flaws in a couple of the items in the list?

They seem to make sense to me but I'm neither an expert in self-defense nor the target audience for this advice.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:00 pm 
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I'd love to see Steve's points one by one, whenever he has time or feels like it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:04 am 
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Let me start by stating that most of the info comes from two sources. Roy Hazzelwood of the FBI- behavioral science unit (retired) and Dr. A. Nicholas Groth, phycologist and former director of forensic mental health associates. Roy’s FBI definitions are based on Dr. Groths findings. There are no higher authorities in the subject of sexual deviance crimes, rape and profiling.
There are two general types of rape:
A… where the attacker is known to the victim like “date rape”
B.. where the attacker and victim are strangers to each other.
Type A is where most rapes occur however virtually no self defense class or system addresses this issue

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-se ... tacker.htm
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/st ... -offenders

Type B is the common boogie man that most self defense info is aimed at (with little or no thought behind who this criminal really is). This attacker is always a serial rapist even if it might happen to be his first attempt. As a matter of self defense it should be assumed that a serial rapist almost always has the capability to be a serial killer as well.

This is Roy Hazzelwood’s answer when questioned on women’s self defense ;

"There's a danger in providing advice for women if a rapist confronts them. I won't give advice on that, because you're dealing with three unknown variables:
You don't know where this assault is going to take place and you would give different advice for location A as opposed to location B.
You don't know the type of rapist she's going to be confronted by. Is she going to be confronted by a power-assurance rapist whose fantasy is to have a consensual sexual relationship and if he uses physical violence, it corrupts his fantasy? Or is she going to be confronted by the sexual sadist who enjoys the suffering of his victims? There's a world of difference.
You don't know the strengths and weaknesses of all the women in your audience. In an audience of fifty, you've got fifty different personalities. So how do you give one piece of advice that's appropriate for fifty different women?"

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/crim ... ood/2.html


Last edited by hoshin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:42 am 
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Serial rapists have a motive and a fantasy. Everything revolves around these two things. It is the rapists attempt to play or live out this fantasy. The fantasy conditions the behavior. The rapists “MO” or modus operandi depends on the intelligence and experience of the rapist this will change over time but the fantasy will remain the same.
It is a mistake to make self defense statements like “rapists look for long pony tails for control and clothing that allows easy access. In reality they have a fantasy and the victim will fit into this individual’s ideal victim profile. No two rapists will have the same fantasy. As example some attackers might be angry at their mothers so they will pick a victim that reminds them somehow of their mother. With this logic in mind no preventative actions like hair style or dress can be advised.
Serial criminals can be divided into two categories “UNORGANIZED and ORGANIZED”. The rapist tends to start out as an un-organized attacker with no defined planning and will develop into an organized attacker who plans and thinks out his crime well in advance. However some will start as organized and get even better at committing their crimes as time goes on.
An unorganized rapist tends to leave more to chance and therefore might be easier to dissuade from the self defense aspect and is more apt to leave behind clues for law enforcement. However as an unorganized crime it is harder for law enforcement to recognize as a serial offender.
A well thought out detail oriented “organized” criminal will be much harder to escape from since he will have prepared for your abduction bringing things like duct tape, rope, ect. From a self defense perspective your best chance for escape is in the first moments of the attack. In many cases the attacker will want to bring you from your initial contact location “crime scene #1” to second location “crime scene #2”. If the attacker is able to get you to crime scene #2 your chances of survival diminish.

I think this was mentioned in the original post so this part was accurate.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:11 am 
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The major factor to consider is the classification of the rapist.
Your major categories of rapists are these:
• Power-reassurance: That's what law enforcement calls the "gentleman rapist." He has a complex fantasy of a consensual relationship with a woman.
• Power-assertive: That's the individual who believes that he is entitled to do whatever he wants to women. They're to be used for his gratification. His fantasies are minimal.
• Anger-retaliatory: This person assaults because he's motivated by anger and he's getting even with women for real or imagined wrongs. He has almost no fantasy. He simply strikes.
• Anger-excitation: He's a sexual sadist. He's punishing women because he believes them to be evil and powerful, so he's trying to take away that power. He has deep and complex fantasies.
• Opportunistic: He's there to commit another crime like robbery or burglary. The victim is there and he simply seizes the opportunity. He's frequently under the influence of alcohol or drugs. If he starts robbing and raping repeatedly, he gets classified into one of the major categories.
• Gang rape: This involves three or more offenders and you always have a leader and a reluctant participant. Those are extremely violent, and what you find is that they're playing for each other's approval. It gets into a pack mentality and can be horrendous.


The most dangerous is the Anger-excitation or sexual sadist. This is also were most self defense advise falls apart. The sexual sadist is less concerned about the actual rape and more interested in the suffering of his victim. If the victim fights back and is unable to escape this only fuels his enjoyment and his fantasy. HE DOES NOT CARE if you wet your pants or force yourself to throw up as many suggest doing. If the victim fights his control he will very quickly escalate the violence to horrendous levels.
If you bite him or bend his fingers back to defend yourself this will not dissuade him but will fuel his aggression and give him more reason to PUNISH you. This is the type of criminal that will literally cut your fingers off for doing so. (Think Annie in the movie Misery) Without a doubt in this case you are fighting for your life.
As a self defense professional how can you advise women to act when there are many variables. Sometimes it will be better to comply until escape is possible to avoid bodily injury. It’s very hard to run with broken feet or missing feet. It is easy to bleed to death with even a small well placed unattended cut.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:23 am 
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Fair enough, but a lot of the advice is centered around not making yourself an easy target and is consistent with advice that you see on other public security bulletins. Surely, that much of it is valid.

http://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/artic ... rotection/

http://www.tbotech.com/blog/index.php/2 ... l-assault/


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:30 am 
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Good info Steve thanks for the input this thread is getting interesting. I've never bothered attempting to teach anti rape type material. I like Rick Wilson's program self defense for women .It's robust and peppered with information but does not assume to be a how to program with cast iron check lists. A night mare of litigation can ensue if one offers this sort of approach to presenting the material.

Violence and self defense are dynamic fluid situations with no two events being the same. Templates or checklists rarely fit all situations. Attack number 512 met with response 512 just doesn't work. (My opinion)

If I'm not mistaken I've run afoul of the law on this site for expressing this opinion to strongly in the past. :lol: I'm going to sit this dance out and just see what I can learn when I keep my mouth shut! So far a fair bit.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:11 am 
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Mark;
The two links you posted are good. They are common sense points. But it might be over thinking things to the point of paranoia. For general safety it’s good to think about but let’s remember where your original post started, rape prevention. Keep in mind most cases of rape happen with someone the women knows like a relative, co worker, roommates boyfriend, ex boyfriend or someone she is currently dating. The stats may vary but I would say somewhere in the 90% range. So that other very small percent is like being hit by lightning.
Dr. Groth did the first studies and interviews I am aware of with actual convicted sexual criminals. One point he found was that the rapist’s favorite place to commit his crime was in the women’s own bedroom.
And I quote:
“There is nothing there but four walls and me”
To read his statement is chilling.
My point here is if we as instructors and as a martial arts community are giving out information we have the responsibility to make sure it’s right. I have seen over and over rape prevention classes and systems and NONE have addressed the fact that in all probability they will know the rapist. That in and of itself will change the whole dynamic of how a woman responds physically and mentally.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:39 am 
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Let’s look at the “though the rapist eyes" list.
I won’t relist them but reading them numbers 1, 2, 3 suggest what a rapist is looking for. As I posted a rapist who is a stranger to the victim is looking to fulfill his sexual deviant fantasy. This will vary. no two criminals will have the same fantasy or motive. More often than not it’s something simple like blond hair or height or maybe mannerisms.
Numbers 4,5,6 suggest preferred abduction locations. This just isn’t how it works. Rapists don’t pick locations based on a criteria. In some cases it’s a location they are familiar with, somewhere they have “cased” out like a burglar but in other cases the location is just where he happens to be at the moment something triggers his aggression and that could be anywhere anytime.
This leads me to number 7; I remember reading a case where (by chance this was in a parking lot) the rapist was on the phone in an argument with his girlfriend. This triggered his rage and control /power dominance violence and attacked a woman putting groceries in the trunk of her car; he raped her right there against her car in broad daylight. He did not care about getting caught.
Number 8; “if you put up any kind of fight at all they will get discouraged”
This only works with one out of the five classifications, the power reassurance rapist, the fight does not fit into his fantasy of a willing and compliant victim. In every other instance this simply is a false statement and again as I posted the sexual sadist will feed on this aggression.

Numbers 9 and 10 ; really ? umbrellas ? Someone can make these statements with a straight face?


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