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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:47 am 
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Stryke wrote:
The real issue isn't that there's standard Bunkai , its that many feel some of the standard bunkais ******.

I believe the kata present the answers , but not the questions.


Agree mate!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:56 am 
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Good post Laird.

It is really very simple to a student who understands the dynamics of violence as per Rory Miller's teachings and many others.


There is no question in my mind that when Master Uechi spoke of applications of the method 'as you wish or the situation dictates' he meant to say that you will be applying 'concepts' …not necessarily looking like the physical movements we practice in Bunkai that some feel we should be restricted to when applying the 'method' _

Master Takara, reportedly told Walter, that in a self defense situation what we will do …will not resemble anything like the 'compulsory' moves we know.

I think this is the 'disconnect' in this conversation.

If some believe that any bunkai applications must be done exactly following the kata movements, well, I disagree. There can be little doubt that such thinking is very restrictive and severely limits what the katas have to offer.


Remember we are talking about 'concepts' and not necessarily 'movements' that kata ingrains and develops based on individual expressions.

This is your 'disconnect' in the discussion. Kata should 'liberate' not restrict. This is what I believe Master Uechi/Nakahodo meant to convey.

Kata in reality has no limits, much of the concepts contained therein many times remain hidden until discovered by the individual to fit the self.

Our job, as students, is to remain true to the essence of the kata and integrate its principles into our subconscious so that we may express it in innumerable ways and not necessarily following a set of moves from it…as opposed to 'concepts' from it.

The fundamental combative concepts embodied by the katas must first be studied and understood but the exact manner of application eventually become/will be unique to us individually in combative expressions.

Example here is when as an infantry soldier we were taught fixed bayonet 'forms' followed by two men bunkai apps. The instructor had killed a great number of enemy soldiers in Korea and he was adamant on the importance of conceptual applications of the bayonet training to keep us alive.

As a long time teacher I see it as inevitable that modifications will be required if you are to express the katas in the best way for you as an individual.

And as you do that, you will realize that those mods are surfacing from the kata.

A best way to tell if a student has learned anything when he goes up for Dan testing, might be for him/her first demonstrate bunkai in the traditional sense so we can see if he can apply the lines of force and directions of the style….[the compulsories]…

Then have him demonstrate his own particular ways of dealing with the same attacks using the 'concepts' mated to his persona.

And the question of how to train to avoid the wrong ingraining, is to practice the bunkai compulsories much less often than the 'liberated' bunkai while also making sure we do it against realistic and more habitual acts of violence, with a variety of partners, especially the 'Hercules' types.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:02 am 
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The confusion is the questions might be wrong. If all the questions are coming from a long distance sparring range point of view the answers might be so skewed that the only answers one receives is ones that fit their paradigm of what violence is.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:15 am 
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I agree Laird. Not everyone has experienced violence, if at all, in the same degree, so it is normal to rely on 'assumptions' as per Rory's books on violence.

BTW I consider how you handled yourself in that 'tunnel' against that burly 'intimidator' scum bag...as an expression of your kata training.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:22 am 
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Spitting an assailant in the face, then kicking him in the nuts, while he wipes his face, is also an expression from Kata.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:24 am 
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[quote="Van Canna"]Good post Laird.Back at you my friend, I particularly think this hits the nail on the chin!


"Kata should 'liberate' not restrict."

"Kata in reality has no limits, much of the concepts contained therein many times remain hidden until discovered by the individual to fit the self." [quote]



Testing must be designed to test for the traits one is seeking.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:30 am 
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Rick wrote the following on a previous thread in 2005
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I often take a theme for my Bunkai.
Sometimes the theme is the types of incoming lines of force. For example I may deal with all kinds of sucker punches from all kinds of angles. I may deal with grabs or holds. I will explore each move in relation to the incoming line of force and see if the lines of force generated can be used effectively against that particular line of force.

We often find some amazing new things and sometimes we find that the particular line of force we are generating has little effect on “that” incoming line of force.


Like trying to meet incoming force head on, resulting in the opponent making you eat your own 'block'....

In our dojo we learn this well when up against our 'Hercules' [ Arthur Rabesa nicknamed him 'Luca Brasi' the killer in the Godfather movie and the two former Boxers. One trained by Petronelli.

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:32 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
Spitting an assailant in the face, then kicking him in the nuts, while he wipes his face, is also an expression from Kata.
Ahh much like asking have you read this yet? While stick the newspaper in the guys face and then drive your elbow thru it! You got the time mate? While they glance at the watch you take them out. To deal with a predator you have to be predatory. a hand full of coins thrown in the face to elicit a reaction before you go to work. Fair play is a rule from people who wish to play. Those who wish to prey have no rules and neither do those wishing to shut down the predator.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:45 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gPCkumDmiI

Altering the mind and taking advantage. Are those my "F"ing shoes...did you steal my blue shirt while pointing and while the aggressor processes the unexpected response you go off with a preemptive attack. Nothing wrong with stealing from the muggers play book if you read it coming.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:54 am 
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Quote:
Ahh much like asking have you read this yet? While stick the newspaper in the guys face and then drive your elbow thru it!
:mrgreen:

Think that bum in the tunnel pissed his pants when he heard your blade click open? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:07 am 
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A good test of coordination would be having a Dan test candidate eat three slices of pizza while doing seisan kata.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:12 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
Think that bum in the tunnel pissed his pants when he heard your blade click open? :lol:
They all smell like piss....I think he had a new appreciation for life after he met me...I like to have a positive impact on people's lives. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:18 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbrgm3WodYM

Simple things are great Bunkais , this could be the cranes beak or even a Sanchin thrust


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:13 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWQrkFErRuc

anyone see any Uechi in the positions?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:53 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N7gpJsf74o

The brachial stun is also a favorite.

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