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 Post subject: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:22 pm 
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This is from my student Carlo who is Six feet four inches, 265 pounds, all muscle, and is a power hitter extraordinaire.

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Hi Van !

I came across this video thats educational in my view. This is a clip of a brawl with a bunch

of punks in Boston last week after the Red Sox Parade.

Its a bit explicit, but I found the beginning excellent. It shows how a big strong street guy
(Red Shirt) woould most likely attack you. If only the other guy worked the spin moves you have been teaching us !!!

Also, when your outnumbered how important it is to be aware of your surroundings......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTTDOCYNWjg#t=145

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 Post subject: Re: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:26 pm 
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When you see something like this, you start to think a bit deeper about the dynamics of street violence and of your dojo training.

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 Post subject: Re: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
"Avoidance" might be the text book answer but, carrying that concept too far meaning one might has to just stay home all the time-- with a loaded gun.

What I really can't see, short of basing on my freshman philosophy or psychology-101, is why do people take a ball game to such extreme? It seems to be happening all over the place --- even Boston?

I guess a different color shirt immediately marks the other person as different and therefore enemy to be beaten. Sad!

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 Post subject: Re: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Good question Henry and not an easy one to answer by anyone.

When you think of how some of us may find ourselves in a street fight, that comes out of nowhere...here are some similarities of 'triggers' related to violence of sports events
Quote:
When spectators attend events,
they take with them the histories, issues, controversies,
and ideologies of the communities
and cultures in which they live.

They may be
racists who want to harass those they identify
as targets for discrimination. They may come
from ethnic neighborhoods and want to express
and reaffirm their ethnicity or from particular
nations and want to express their national identity.

They may resent negative circumstances
in their lives and want to express their bitterness.

They may be members of groups or gangs
in which status is gained partly through fighting.

They may be powerless and alienated and
looking for ways to be noticed and defined as
socially important.

They may be young men
who believe that manhood is achieved through
violence and domination over others. Or they
may be living lives so devoid of significance and
excitement that they want to create a memorable
occasion they can discuss boastfully with
friends for years to come.

In other words, when
thousands of spectators attend a sport event,
their actions are grounded in multiple factors
far beyond the event and the stadium.

Crowd violence
may be as much a gender issue as it is a
racial or social class issue, and controlling it may
involve changing notions of masculinity as much
as hiring additional police to patrol the sidelines
at every event.

Policies dealing with oppressive
forms of inequality, economic problems,
unemployment, lack of political representation,
racism, and distorted definitions of masculinity
are needed. These factors often lead to tensions,
conflicts, and violence.

The most important impact of violence in
sports may be its reaffirmation of a gender ideology
that assumes the “natural superiority of men.”
This ideology is based on the belief that an ability
to do violence is an essential feature of manhood.

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 Post subject: Re: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:41 pm 
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One of the Wing chun sayings that isn't known by many is " We are not hungry to punch"......and really this applies to any martial art. You have to get yourself grounded and have a target set up before even considering a punch. I noticed that in the clip.I know it's easy to say when you are not there :) but really until you can get in that position it's pointless trying to punch.a lot of the guys getting beat upon , were getting hit because they couldn't get themselves in a good advantageous position, and also they didn't look like they wanted to fight anyway..................personally I avoid any thing involving a crowd , like the plague


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 Post subject: Re: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Location: USA
What I get from this is: Going to ground = bad. Backpedalling = bad.
The ones that went out for the count were hit by other people while tangled up with someone else. The only exception was the guy who only moved in reverse, completely on defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Red sox parade punks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I have been thinking about that video for quite some time. I have a few comments.

FIRST AND FOREMOST...
Do not be drunk in public. In so many ways, the KOs and serious, serious injuries could have been avoided by: 1) being sober enough not to incite violence (just STFU), and 2) being sober enough to defend oneself.

SECOND...
I like this.

Quote:
If only the other guy worked the spin moves you have been teaching us !!!

Very true. It's all about the bull and the toreador.

That said... there are many ways to "rotate around" an opponent. Here's an unconventional one from judo.

.... TOMOE NAGE

If you have great ukemi skills - and I am a *big* fan of developing them - then this can be a natural and devastating response to a charging bull who is pushing you back. And any skilled ukemi practitioner can get up much faster than someone who probably has never done judo and doesn't know how to fall "nicely". High speed dirt is a pretty devastating strike. The harder they come...

I learned tomoe nage from my Goju guy who started in judo and eventually ended up in special forces. We had a special Goju kata bunkai we did (a continuous battle type bunkai) that ended up with a tomoe nage. And the way we did it, you rolled up on top of the guy where you could pound the ever-loving cr@p out of him before he knew what had happened. I must have done that move a thousand times. Great stuff.

On the street with many attackers though, the stupid-simple tomoe nage would probably be best. Just send the charging assshole flying head-over-heels onto the concrete, and get out of there. Seeing that one guy trying to stomp on the other guy's head... this was some bad stuff. You don't want to be part of that melee unless you're surrounded by some sober friends who know how to kick butt.

- Bill


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