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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Posts: 564
Totally agree Van.
I had an epiphany a while back about boxing, I was always taught to keep up a good guard, keep moving and keep punching.........my epiphany was that boxing is about hitting hard targets because if you do those three things then it becomes very,very difficult to hit you.....if you stand there and tense then you are a an easy target....but do those three things and landing a good hard punch on you, that will do damage is very difficult.......those are three principles that need to be known in any martial arts practice


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:40 am 
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Van: "I then give a 'go sign' to one or several opponents to rush the student with any technique they want, including swinging a baseball bat, and watch to see if the student is able to detect an attack from his peripheral vision and how fast and accurately he can get off line to position in a flanking angle to the opponent while avoiding a rush that could kill him on the street.

Practicing this over and over we 'discover' so many 'training holes' that are befuddling."

Man, I wish I could learn from you guys. I would be back in a gi in a heartbeat.


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
fivedragons wrote:
Man, I wish I could learn from you guys. I would be back in a gi in a heartbeat.

Woulda coulda shoulda.... Put the damn gi on (or sweats) and just train!

In many ways I was blessed because I learned far outside the center of the Uechi Ryu solar system in the U.S. I needed to create my own path. Doing so taught me things that others who were spoonfed never learned. And I learned to be appreciative of the attention I did get when at camps or visiting senior instructors.

Then you can come back here and compare notes. When you find groups of people struggling in different areas discovering the same things, well that's confirmation of important principles.

Many important concepts remain hidden in plain sight because the practitioner doesn't appreciate what's there right in front of them. If you have to create your own learning opportunities, your perspective is quite different.

- Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 409
Bill exactly my experience I couldn't agree more


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:04 am 
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Thanks Bill. Started looking for schools online. Of course, you're right. Maybe I can just find someone around here who gives personal lessons, and I'll ask them to teach me how to fight them. If I'm honest with myself, I have no desire to learn a style at this point. I don't want to spend money for yet another person's version of the correct way to stand, walk and make a fist. I just need some feedback. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:36 am
Posts: 564
5D
I've trained on my own for years, with occaisional forays into martial arts that interested me. Now I honestly believe that martial arts can't teach you to fight, only fighting can teach you to fight.Any thing else that you do is only training and some training is better than others. Get a Poor Bob if you can or even a punchbag and just work out with that, maybe do a little weights, really thats all you need. If you do ever get into a fight then you'll immediately do what you have trained to do, the hardest thing to do can be to throw the first punch, but you will have practiced that thousands of times hopefully


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:39 am
Posts: 20
Seems my few posts are missing from here too. That's disappointing.

Seisan bunkai - I love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Hi Richard,

Yes, lots of posts are missing from every thread, it seems. But hopefully all is back on track now.

I love the bunkai as well, not necessarily because of the 'standard' applications but because of the concepts within the applications that can be explored in useful ways.

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Van


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:34 am 
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I love the form. I teach the standard bunkai for comparative purposes and for the purpose of formal dan grading as it is the recognised standard used around the world. Like many others, I have found points of departure from the basic bunkai. Working on the premise that for any combat art to be effective under all circumstances and stand the test of time, it must be well rounded; able to cope with striking, wrestling and grappling tactics from any opponent. It would seem that for that to be the case, the art would likely contain components of each of the former combat approaches to some degree. I have to agree with what Glasheen sensei says about missing what is right there in front of us and seeing things from a different perspective when we have to really look at them for ourselves.

I know when I posted the last time I described the way I approach the turn block kick knee strike portion of the bunkai. I do not teach a tackle at all. In this segment, the uke thrusts with a right punch (for the sake of argument). This occasions tori using an inside left wauke to capture the punch and follow up with a left front kick to the uke's lower abdomen causing his/her head to come forward. Tori slaps uke on the back of the neck with his/her left palm as he/she raises the right knee up to collide with the lowered head. I also said last time that that was all I would say and for those who hadn't tried it before like that, give us all some feedback on what you find with what I've just described. And better yet, what you find next. For those who already know, or think they know, give others a chance first. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Good post Richard, thank you.

The variations of conceptual aspects of a Kata or standard bunkai are fun to 'mess with'...leading to a better understanding of lines of force and directions under the influence of the chemical cocktail that seems to be all controlling in confrontations.

I like to focus any move we are taught to make in Kata or bunkai on the HAPV as listed by Patrick McCarthy. It is useful to explore the most common acts of violence, the most common ways we are likely to be attacked, and to apply the 'Uechi style' against them.

McCarthy sensei emphasizes the importance of understanding principles as opposed to techniques. Something I've always personally believed to be true.

Walter Mattson, 10th Dan, under Takara sensei, told me once that Master Takara teaches in that manner because in a real fight our Uechi response actions won't look anything like what we practice in the dojo.

Again, my view has always been that under the stress of the chemical cocktail, many of the techniques we practice, will not surface in the manner we expect. But the concepts of the technique, will.

I do teach the defense against a street take down or attempt by a big burly opponent to charge because it is a common attack. And the defense I teach is to sense the charge and be able to spin off line of the attack gaining a flanking advantage.

My student who was almost attacked by a 350 lbs disturbed person in a retail store, just recently, felt confident he would be able to spin off the charge if it came, instead of contesting the opponent's size, weight, momentum and strength. But even that can quickly become a disaster if the adrenaline surge will momentarily freeze the victim.

Thinking that blocking or even hitting, kicking a raging bull coming at you, hoping to stop him, is something to be weary of, something I don't recommend unless first gaining a positional flanking advantage.

This should be obvious but in many cases it isn't.

One of my 'gorilla students' [who owns a meat store and handles 300 lbs sides of beef on a daily basis] is about to bring to our dojo a friend of his who knows no martial arts at all, but is a 300 lbs _Neardenthal_ who can pick up a heating boiler expansion tank from a house basement and bring it up the stairs and outside all on his own.

He will come up not to work out but to observe our training. I love to see these people come up because I use them as examples of what a potential attacker might be on the street and to get real with defensive concepts.

This particular person coming up...once beat up two other big guys to a pulp in a street fight...and he just loves to get hit, no matter where on his body, including his face.

These people are the ones that can teach the greatest lessons just by standing there and maybe giving a student a shove now and then.

I think a good teacher must be able to impress upon a student the truth that we can all be vulnerable to unexpected and tragic occurrences, and to understand that the our practice of karate or other martial art, should really be nothing more than remaining a student of our own individual vulnerabilities.

The time to inculcate and address this concept is not when under attack we suddenly find that all the 'pieces of the puzzle' we assumed we knew_ don't quite fit the way we originally thought, and we are down with our face to the concrete ground and your head being kicked like a soccer ball.

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Van


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:24 am 
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And this is the reason elite atheletes engage in frequent, repeated, deliberate practice. As you say Canna sensei, when you need it is not the time that you need to be working on it. In a tennis match, the demands of a particular return shot may only come up once, but will have required many hours of practice to perfect and be able to achieve in that moment.

With respect to non-armoured car sized assailants (and I say that because I have not as yet attempted this technique on anyone of those unique dimensions), the key has been the angle of the front kick which is directly linked to distance for the kick and control of the ukes incoming right hand. My aim has been to deliver the kick in such a manner as it enters the uke at a 45 degree angle down and in which immediately folds the body and brings the head forward. A similar effect is obtained when one uses a sanchin double thrust spear hand or closed fist sanchin opening aimed at targets in the lower abdomen. With the head forward, it is easy to then slap on the back of the neck or head with the left hand. When we practiced it, it felt like being hit with a sledge hammer.


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Good points, Richard, thank you.

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Van


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:50 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Banff AB
I'm enjoying this...I'm not a proponent of this sort of training but I am an advocate of feed on the reaction you create.

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Freedom is never free!


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:49 am 
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Great opening for a guillotine choke...or err a neck caught in a wauke. Make them present the head and things get better!

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Freedom is never free!


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:53 am 
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Location: Banff AB
Bash the brain stem, Knee the face, twist the neck, close the wind pipe, stop the blood from reaching the brain! Thanks for lowering you head! (why kick or knee low)

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