Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 17, 2014 5:30 am

I will check with my insurance agent on this. Nice to have but it sounds like a special coverage at extra cost?


The thing to understand here is that an umbrella policy will increase your underlying Home and auto limits of coverage to multiples of one million dollars, in addition to providing you defense and indemnity for intentional acts to defend persons and property, whereas the standard HO coverage would not.

Determine what you stand to lose in assets if you hurt someone bad, paralyzing him, or if you kill someone and the estate brings an action against you for wrongful death...

then decide if an umbrella policy at the cost of a few hundred dollars per year is the sensible thing to do.

And be sure to check out the contractual language of the policy as to specific coverage for an intentional act in defense of person and property.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 17, 2014 5:45 am

Also to keep in mind is the fact that surely CCW will perform an in depth investigation to determine if the facts of the occurrence justify a perception of a reasonable man that he was facing a critical life threatening situation.

You may see an event one way while under the stress of perceived imminent danger under the chemical cocktail that might cloud your judgment...whereas others may see it differently after interviewing witness and evaluating available evidence.

So who makes the determination and what is the process of CCW to arrive at a decision?

This is not a criticism of CCW but just due diligence.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 17, 2014 1:17 pm

CCW
Our terms of service can be found on our terms page, or on each page describing our different memberships when you join. Also, when you click that you have read our terms of service when you check out, you can click the highlighted terms of service to view them.


http://ccwsafe.com/terms/

CCW
2.Any use of deadly force in any location that honors your permit(s) or license(s).


Question:Will this include use of non deadly force in any location that honors the permit?

Say you perceive an imminent critical incident and you preempt it by slapping the perp...now due to some pre-existing condition the perp dies of a heart attack which is fund to be related by your slapping him.

Would your slapping him be considered 'deadly force' ?

Will this be covered?
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 17, 2014 1:38 pm

Deadly force
“Deadly force” means force likely to cause death or great bodily harm.


When deadly force is used by a private citizen, the reasonableness rule does not apply. The citizen must be able to prove that a felony occurred or was being attempted, and that the felony threatened death or bodily harm. Mere suspicion of a felony is considered an insufficient ground for a private citizen to use deadly force.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby hthom » Sat May 17, 2014 2:24 pm

Very good points, Van.

For the same reasons I do not feel totally comfortable with the coverage either, but like you said, $99/year, what the heck. Cheap "insurance" although its not exactly insurance.

Just to be sure, even though I have absolutely no interest in getting into any hassles, I do carry the phone numbers of three local attorneys with me. You just never know.

Again, I am only talking about us trained karate folks who hopefully have a little more common sense in such matters. Those who can't tell the difference between a little shove and a knife aiming at them are not the ones I concern with.

Fortunately, based on current events, we do have several local cities where the city attorneys have demonstrated reasonableness when it came to shooting incidents and sided with the shooters. Would I be that lucky? Probably not.

Life is unfair. 50/50 chance and you can count on getting the wrong one. At least I can count on it.

I posted the following on another thread:

----- you will need proofs that you were the good guy if action is inevitable. Therefore the yelling to stop shown in the video would also attract witnesses and get on the security camera(s) if any. As a matter of fact, whether it is a fist fight or gun shooting, make as much scene as possible to the witnesses before any action started that you attempted to de-escalate, that you had no intention to do him any harm. It may just help you a lot in the aftermath if the thug/punk/bg is injured or killed, but must remember though, you will still be in trouble regardless.

Why? Because life is unfair.

So, it is best just swallow your pride and walk away if at all possible. Your life is much more valuable than any of those punks. Let someone else teach him a lesson. Can't be that long of a wait.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Otto » Sun May 18, 2014 4:12 pm

Protecting yourself is one of the "three fights".

The first fight is you versus yourself. When you are lucky enough not to be hit by surprise you usually get that "uh oh feeling", and your subconscious asks "Is this really happening? Am I going to have to fight?"

The second fight is you versus him (them).

The third fight is you versus the legal system. That could be the toughest fight of them all.

What a royal pain in the rear all of them are. You would think if you were a "good guy" life would be simpler.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 18, 2014 8:30 pm

Poignant post Otto.

But the first one many times gives way to 'Emotionally Hi-jack'

Like..."well...what the hell did I take Karate for? Why should I put up with some jerk? And I will start with this 'technique' to teach this bastard a lesson'

We have seen this here on the forum, slightly different but same theme...'I am _ I am - I am...trained the best way...trained in the right style...I am a big tough SOB...so look out you fellow posters'

Now what to do if at a party someone grabs a karate practitioner's wife's Tits?
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby hthom » Mon May 19, 2014 1:19 am

Love it, Van.

And then when this guy gives the karate guy the mean look, the karate guy instantly forgot all his 200 secret techniques---- :mrgreen:
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby fivedragons » Mon May 19, 2014 4:31 am

I don't know what I would do, but once when a friend of my girl got a little disrespectful, I waited until we were sitting together talking. Then I grabbed him by the balls and asked him "do you like that?" He didn't like it.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Otto » Tue May 20, 2014 9:22 pm

Van Canna wrote:Now what to do if at a party someone grabs a karate practitioner's wife's Tits?


Forgive the humor of a serious subject, but this is my favorite "whatever you call it".

Image
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby hthom » Tue May 20, 2014 9:46 pm

A good one, Otto.

I noticed a couple of scythes on the wall. Great surgical instrument wouldn't you say? :mrgreen:
Wonder if CCWSafe would cover the attorney fees.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Thu May 22, 2014 4:00 pm

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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby hthom » Thu May 22, 2014 6:39 pm

Very informative.

Bad guys do not have to worry about this stuff though, they are well protected by our tax money and the bleeding hearts.
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby jorvik » Thu May 22, 2014 10:18 pm

Maybe you should start thinking like the badguys :roll:
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Re: Self Defense Liability-- when lawyers are needed

Postby Van Canna » Fri May 23, 2014 5:06 am

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