Good talk on blocks

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:53 pm

Alan K »

How many times have we all faced the scenarios you describe in detail.

The impulse can be torn between fight or flight, the macho vs. the fear or chemical dump injecting the rage that these morons want to incite.

More frightening is what can happen in such situations as viewed by the long arm of the law.

LEO's and courts do not sympathize with what we feel, and even in a true self defense situation, our acts will be weighed by people who care not about our emotions.

The stark reality is that if you as defender cannot justify your action, you will be judged by persons who believe they have 20/20 hindsight.

Even if you are in the right you may be charged with being involved in an "affray" or melee.

The tests?

1) Did you do everything in your power to evade the incident, including but not limited to your ability to retreat.

2) Was the action you took warranted as viewed by the "reasonable man standard".


We can imagine all sorts of situations in which those two questions might be utilized.

The consequences can be severe and the possibility of conviction of a misdemeanor or felony very real.

I know that it is easy to preach, but few of us take into account the realities of an encounter in the light of the law.

Before we act, we must somehow consider reading about your incident in the local news paper.

Alan K
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:17 pm

Alan,

Good post, but I was looking for visual and psychological cues, more of what Jorvick outlines, to sense or assess what you will be up against when it goes to condition red.

How do we size up angry, aggressive or emotionally disturbed people, criminals or people with drug problems in sheep's clothing, yet we have sensed a threat.

How do we estimate our chances of prevailing if engagement triggers somehow?

Do we look at size?
Demeanor? Facial expression? Manner of dress, of speech, eyes?

What factors influence our possible counterattack/evasion/flight?

How do we tell if our training has really prepared us to deal with is about to come?

That's where fatal mistakes are made...we start with our sensei saying you must have confidence...and these techniques, this conditioning, this 'leg banging' drill etc. will keep you safe...
so with this internal brainwashing dialog we stand our ground instead of avoidance [ think it is shameful for a Uechi man to back down] we don't read the clues right...we fall prey to brawling violence with weapons...like the hapless black belt killed by the gangbanger.

How to keep at bay your "rumination" factor?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:56 pm

So you have a long history of martial arts training, competition, a high Dan ranking. All well and good.

But there is one component to your training that you cannot ignore even as you shove back into the recesses of the mind. The street component.

What have you learned in the ways of tactics? and from whom?
Now you are out on the street and are on your own.

You are having lunch in a crowded restaurant, you spot a couple of thugs walk up to the cashier; it is an armed robbery. Something goes wrong, one of the gunmen starts shooting, people are being killed and wounded. How are you going to save your ass?


Last year our prisons released 2.5 million people. Over 500,000 were violent offenders back on the street where we live. Some of them are in your workplace and you don’t even know it.

What skills do you have to spot the criminal element you are likely to come in contact with, and prevent you from making some tragic mistake in dealing with it inviting violence?

What do you do if someone pulls a weapon and threatens you?

What do you do if a criminal tries to rob you, take your nice new car, invade your home, or some punk makes a pass at your wife?

How do you spot a couple of street punks stalking you at a mall and getting ready to attack you? How do you know enough to assess the threat before they attack and decide how to handle it?

How do you handle road rage “ramming” incidents?

Here's a case for you:

Three gunmen invaded a family restaurant.

They brutalized customers and employees. They slashed the cook’s throat as horrified customers watched. They dragged a 21-year-old woman into a back room then beat and raped her.

After several shots were fired, these vicious punks brazenly strutted out the door after twenty minutes of terror.

And that's your world of real violence.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:24 pm

Your Despised factor

If you get out much and live life and enjoy to party, a good thing, there will be times when you will be picked on even if you did not ask for it.

You will be insulted because of your heritage, nationality, speech, and the way you look\/talk_

When at John’s Summer bash, there were lots of people drinking, lots of big tough looking bikers and martial artists of different styles who walked in with stunning women on their arms.

A few drinks, an unintentional randy look, and brush against one of those foxes could have resulted in some mauling fights.

But…nothing happened..Well behaved crowd..Best I have seen at such a large party with some of the most beautiful women ever put together in one place. What group dynamics were at work that prevented ugly incidents?

What if….

If you had been the subject of threats or insults and you had shrugged those off, would your friends, fellow martial artist present, have thought you lacked self-respect?

Would you feel your self esteem totally savaged by not responding to insults?

Would you feel despised by your friends, would you go home despising yourself, would you despise yourself for a long time to come?

Would you go back to the Dojo and subconsciously take out your frustrated state of mind on some unsuspecting student in a friendly sparring match.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:26 pm

jorvik »

I got punched, some years back by a so called friend..and in a very cowardly manner ( we were both the worse for drink)...I can't say I really responded that well....it was a sucker punch..when I wasn't looking and from somebody who I trusted, totally uncalled for...there's a lot more to the incident than that, but it would take to much time to tell and it gets pretty strange...

point is I was with large group of people who all knew each other...coupla days on this guy started saying how tough he was and how he'd beat up the big bad karate guy.

Some of the group believed him...but my true friends showed their colours, and to a man wouldn't believe a word he said, they all said that if it had been a fight he wouldn't be standing there now..( most didn't see what happened)...I had nothing more to do with him
left it at that...I felt sick that I'd misjudged someone so completely.


Anyway..this guy carried on thinking he was tough and coupla months later went into a biker's bar...playing tough guy and had the crap well and truly kicked out of him..mostly while he was on the floor.....some years later he developed a brain tumour...and died...was it the kicking

he recieved that caused it? poetic justice?

...anyway, words of wisdom from my dad.." it's hard to find your true enemies, because they act like your friends..the guys who call you to your face..well they're alright, you know were you stand with them..its the backstabbers that you've got to watch.....

best to never let your guard all the way down...

jorvik
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:28 pm

The rational thing to do is of course to avoid being drawn into a fight at all costs as the price you pay [hospital bed, debilitating injuries, possibly incarceration, and financial ruin, psychological scarring] is very high.

But for many this is all rationalization.

The question is, in spite of your feeling this way, can you really live with yourself after being sh** on.

La Fond talks about the difference between being your own prizefighter or your own bodyguard.

When it over, do you really believe what your friends believe about you being able to defend yourself easily with your training or will you have self tormenting doubts haunting you the rest of your life?

Can you really handle the blow to your self esteem, or are you just saying that!!
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 pm

GSantaniello »

If you get out much and live life and enjoy to party, a good thing, there will be times when you will be picked on even if you did not ask for it.
You will be insulted because of your heritage, nationality, speech, and the way you look.

I find this also to be true in the workplace. Especially when working with large numbers of co-workers.

What if….
If you had been the subject of threats or insults and you had shrugged those off, would your friends, fellow martial artist present, have thought you lacked self-respect?

Probably not.

Would you feel your self esteem totally savaged by not responding to insults?

I have been in similar situations in the past. Yes, my self esteem was challenged.

Would you feel despised by your friends, would you go home despising yourself, would you despise yourself for a long time to come?

A couple of situations in my life had effected me in such a way. Not so much by friends, more so within the self.

When it over, do you really believe what your friends believe about you being able to defend yourself easily with your training or will you have self tormenting doubts haunting you the rest of your life?

Yes Van, we have disscused this before. Is it not human to question yourself as to what the outcome may truley have been in the event of a real fight ?

Is it not a bit arrogant to believe that just because one is a descent martial artist of say even a respectable rank and reputation, that the possibility of defeat not ever enter ones mind

Can you really handle the blow to your self esteem, or are you just saying that!!

Easier said than done.

Respectfuly,

------------------

Gary S.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:35 am

LeeDarrow »

Man or mouse, that's what the question seems to be. BUT - is there an alternative? IMHO, yes. That answer is to check your ego at the door and treat people as you would want to be treated.

I work a lot in establishments where people drink. My job involves approaching a table of complete strangers, pulling up a seat and interacting with them, even though they don't know me from Adam's Off Ox.

The range of places goes from Detroit waterfront bars to the private parties at the Plymouth, MI Hilton for the Mass Republican delegation in 1976 to Sandals Resorts to a beer and a shot joint on the north side of Chicago to private parties for everyone from corporate executives to an alternative lifestyle party (I really have to talk to my agent about THAT one!).

I have only been involved in three bar fights in the past 30 years and two of those were over before I got into the situation. The other one was chilled out by the bouncer and myself without a punch being thrown.

How?

People usually respond positively to people who respond positively to them.

Drunkenness comes in several phases: Happy, Charming, Witty, Invisible and Bulletproof. So long as you catch the person in the first 3, you are probably okay. When you get to the last two, things can get dicey.

Fast talking, oddball confusing statements and even a good joke can do a lot to put off a situation. Tactical control of the situation is also useful.

By keeping something between you and the possible hostile, you improve your chances of things not getting nasty, and, if they do, you have something between you and him.

Also, remember the words of the immortal Robert Heinlein, who said: "An insult is like a drink. It only effects you if you take it."

Sometimes, after taking a verbal shot, the wince and the "Ouch! I apologize," works better than kick to the pills.

It's one thing to fight in defense of self or loved ones. It's another altogether, to fight over a perceived insult.

Just a few things I've noticed in my years as a strolling bar and restaurant magician.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:38 am

Love to bring up these discussions because, in most cases, the road to hell is paved with good intentions that never seem to play out.It all depends on your nature of personality.

Look at the verbal self defense concept, not many can follow the defusing techniques when emotional turmoil kicks in, despite all the talk about what they would do in any given situation.

The amygdala is the center of our
emotional life -- it holds emotional memory and Goleman and others believe
that the amygdala receives some direct, fuzzy, sensory information which it
sifts for meaning and danger.

This can result in something we have all
experienced which he calls "emotional highjacking" where the emotional part
of our brain overrides the thinking/logical part of our brain and causes
immediate reactions.

If you add to this, the complex interplay of inhibitory
efforts of the prefrontal cortex on the amygdala and the "rumination" link
that can often begin with emotional highjacking, and you have a complex
situation related to conflict going on within ourselves.

Thus, we
essentially have two operating brains -- an emotional brain and a logical
brain_

normally, these two work together very smoothly and efficiently, but
there are times when they are out of synch, and many of the most spectacular
instances of conflict erupting into conflagration are examples of this
process.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:42 am

jorvik »

"This can result in something we have all
experienced which he calls "emotional highjacking" where the emotional part
of our brain overrides the thinking/logical part of our brain and causes
immediate reactions."


I can relate to that, even on these forums...when you feel that your're being "flamed",and go off in a huff...sometimes the people seem to know just what will rile you.....then, you go off leave it for a while, and come back..read the thread again...and realise that you'd misread it..

that they were'nt attacking you at all, or your philosophy,personality..intellect etc..but that somehow you'd got this picture..very wrongly..in your head,and that's only on the forums speaking to like minded people, who all have the same interest i.e. martial arts

....problems can get much worse out on the streets...or were alcohol or women become involved...testosterone and alcohol..( bad mix..worse than napalm).

culture plays a part...as well...I notice differences between people on the forums...its kinda strange because it's..just as people describe, it yet different( I mean the differences between U.S.A and U.K)....I don't mean this in a detramental fashion...it doesn't come down to right and wrong, good and bad..just different attitudes to some things.

I imagine that when this is combined with race or creed..and religion, there really could be major disagreements over truly petty things...maybe that's whats wrong with the world?

I can't really think of a way to overcome these things...because you become suddenly involved without even realising you are. the cold light of reason flies straight out the window...maybe meditation would help...or taking a deep breath and counting to 10? This must be a problem that the essential services face a lot, I wonder if they have any training in place that could resolve such issues?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:46 am

Can you really be this cool?

I know people who have written some sensible things on the page about ways of dealing/defusing road rage incidents, then totally lose it and chase some car at 90 miles an hour while foaming at the mouth.

Or have been overcome with internal rage and homicidal ideation with a coworker, spouse, friend, some old lady cutting them off at the checkout counter…the list goes on.

To be sure there are some who are, by nature, able to follow through on what they have written on the forums, but they are in the minority, and I’d still like to be there next to them to see what they would really do and say when their self respect gets s*hit on.

Yet, bringing this up for discussion may reach the depths of our minds enough to make some small difference at the critical moment, I don’t know.

Ever hear people say 'I won't be disrespected' ...the 'dissing' thing is a rampant enemy.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:47 am

Tony-San »

Most people will be more like the Ape Schit man....


UNGA BUNGA BINGA BUNGA!!!!!!
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:53 am

GSantaniello »

When we train in the Dojo with all our kata, kumite, pre arranged sparring, free sparring etc.,
do we envision then or after, the most likely fight venues our skills will be tested in?

As for myself, any envisioning is more of the "after". As in the "during" there is no chance in the "setting" or "space" one may find themselves in.

Is it a barroom, a street sidewalk? What fight venues can you think of and how much space do you think you will be granted by your adversary or more than one ?

The variables are endless. Depending upon ones lifestyle and suroundings, i find the the "space" element is most concerning.
I believe that there is much subjectivness to the many scenerios that one can imagine.

------------------

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:03 am

Woman slain at Route 24 rest stop

BRIDGEWATER - On the other side of the bathroom door, she would find cars, lights, people, the highway - safety, if Alexandra Zapp could dodge the man blocking the way out with his body, and a knife.

The man had seen her pull in to the rest stop off Route 24, prosecutors said, wearing flip-flops and clutching her wallet and keys as she headed for the ladies' room in the early morning hours yesterday.

He had pulled the knife and he had waited for her. Zapp opened the door to her attacker, and what police say happened next surprised no one who knew the fiery athlete: She began to struggle.

Zapp weighed less than 100 pounds, but she was strong. Prosecutors said she fought savagely against Paul J. Leahy, biting and head-butting her way out of his grip.

Then, already bloody and still cornered by the stalls, she tried to reason with her killer: If he let her go, she would tell others that Leahy had rescued her from another attacker.

Her pleas failed: Moments later, the struggle began again, and shortly before dawn it ended with her death.

In a random killing already raising new questions about the state's sex offender registry, Leahy, 39, of East Bridgewater, was charged with murder, kidnapping, armed robbery, and armed assault.

Within hours of the murder, Bridgewater police officials revealed that they had known about Leahy for years. He is a convicted rapist with a criminal record stretching back 19 years. But a backlog in the classification of sex offenders in the state prevented his name from being registered.

Police said Zapp, who was heading home to Newport, R.I., was stabbed repeatedly in the neck, chest, hands, and shoulders after she bolted for the door hoping to escape.

In details they said came from Leahy's own vivid statements to police, prosecutors said Zapp threw herself to the floor, trying desperately to kick Leahy as he overpowered her.

''She walked into that restroom, and she never came out alive,'' said Assistant District Attorney Frank Middleton, describing in a Brockton courtroom yesterday the brutal struggle that unfolded as Leahy, an employee of the Burger King at the service stop on Route 24 southbound in Bridgewater, allegedly stabbed the 30-year-old Zapp to death.

''Anybody willing to do what he did to an innocent woman is nothing else than a cold-blooded killer,'' said Plymouth District Attorney Timothy Cruz.

Help came within seconds of the stabbing, but there would be no rescue. At about 4:20 a.m., an off-duty State Police officer who had stopped for gas heard thuds and groans through the wall as he entered the adjoining men's room.

Still in uniform, Lieutenant Stephen O'Reilly dipped his boot into the blood he saw coming from the women's room, according to a State Police spokesman. It was still wet, and as O'Reilly approached the door with his gun drawn, he could hear the sound of running water.

When he opened the door, prosecutors said, O'Reilly found Leahy standing by a sink and holding Zapp's wallet. All around him, O'Reilly told police, bloody streaks covered the restroom walls. Steps away, behind the second-to-last bathroom stall, O'Reilly said, he saw the lower half of Zapp's body.

''`I lost it, I lost it,''' O'Reilly told police Leahy said to him, moments before a lifeless Zapp was rushed to Morton Hospital in Taunton. At 5:40 a.m., just over an hour after her Volvo pulled into the side entrance of the Burger King, Zapp was pronounced dead.

A court-appointed lawyer for Leahy, Frank Spillane, said he would have no comment on the charges until Leahy's court appearance Aug. 8.

Calling the crime heinous, Middleton asked that Leahy be held without bail. As the prosecutor recounted the details of the killing for 15 minutes yesterday, Leahy never lifted his head. He kept his head down as Middleton described Leahy's lengthy criminal record, which began at age 18.

It began with motor vehicle violations, but the crimes quickly turned violent, and then sexual, after Leahy was convicted in 1984 of entering the home of a 13-year-old Brockton girl, forcing her into a bathroom at knifepoint, and assaulting her.

Then, after a short stint in the Plymouth County House of Correction, Leahy walked into a Brockton pizza shop, forced a woman into a back room, and raped her.

He served 13 years of a 15-year sentence for the charge. By 2000, he was back in court again, this time charged with accosting a minor and asking her to perform oral sex.

He served six months in county jail, and sometime later he began working at the Burger King on Route 24.

As a convicted rapist, Leahy would be a candidate for the state's sex offender registry. But because of legal challenges, the registry board was blocked from processing cases until last year. As a result, only 1,000 of 18,000 offenders have been registered.

Officials at Burger King would not comment on Leahy's employment or whether they conducted a routine background check before hiring him. In a statement, the fast-food chain said only that it was saddened by the crime and was working with authorities in the investigation.

In Newport, at Papers, the stationery store where Zapp worked part time, friends and customers gathered to grieve and express shock at Zapp's murder.

''We can't comprehend that it happened, even now,'' said Judith Carroll, who owns the store. ''It should not have happened to her.''

To Zapp's friends, she was known as Ally, a confessed daddy's girl whose personality towered over her diminutive size. From horseback riding to sailing - in which she was certified to instruct - she had a voracious appetite for life, according to her friends.

''She was so full of energy and a nonstop talker. She was always telling us stories,'' said Carroll. ''An elegant lady with a bubbly personality. She commanded an audience. She had so much charisma, people were just attracted to her.''

An animal lover, Zapp cared for her coworkers' pets when they were out of town. She had been working at Papers for about 18 months. Absorbing the loss yesterday, Carroll embraced customers as they rushed into the store.

Recalling Zapp's athletic physique and ease at hoisting heavy boxes through the store, Carroll and employees imagined aloud that she put up a gutsy fight before succumbing to her attacker. ''Ally was not a naive young lady,'' Carroll said. ''She was strong physically and mentally.''

Zapp was a keelboat training coordinator at USA Sailing Association in Portsmouth. Monday was her last day in that post.

''We are greatly saddened to announce that former US SAILING Keelboat coordinator and caring friend Ally Zapp was murdered early this morning,'' the organization said in a statement on its Web site yesterday. ''On behalf of the entire US SAILING family, we express our sincerest condolences to her family and friends.''
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:08 am

When you work out and begin to believe you are safe because of some kata and stale air punching while hissing....you are just kidding yourself...

You need to study the 'violence tactical' read Rory's books and learn about the concept.
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