Good talk on blocks

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:51 pm

RA Miller »

Van, I gotta tell ya...

I've always thought you were exaggerating the number of instructors who play down the difference between training and real life.

Maybe just luck, but almost all of my instructors have been very aware of the difference between the mat and concrete.

Have just run into one who "won't be affected" because he "visualizes". He considers that anyone who is affected just lacked imagination.

Don't know why I'm compelled to call people on the fantasy (same reason you are, probably Van) but he was giving some very suicidal advice. Called him on it, he got defensive...

His summed up argument was that just because I've actually done it, it doesn't invalidate what he learned in the dojo, that experience specifically doesn't apply to "properly trained" people. It was scary.

Rory
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:57 pm

LeeDarrow »

Van Canna-Sensei,

It would not surprise me in the least that people would claim that the cocktail doesn't exist, especially in the "Master" ranks.

Unfortunately, as we both know, this is a myth. Biology is biology, regardless of the culture and chemistry is chemistry.

Combat aftermath happens to EVERYONE to some extent. If it doesn't, the person may by either psychotic or a sociopath. But even those disorders CAN experience the cocktail - and its aftermath.

As we both know - from experience (as I can gather from your posts).

Given a choice, I'll take a choku of hot sake over the internal cocktail - any day!

Kind regards and with respect,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:03 pm

Top monkey

I was working with “muscles,” a short walleyed martial artist/weight lifter.

Wore a tank top, shorts, thick glasses, his time was devoted to posing into produce –case mirrors, dead lifting loaded pallets of canned goods, and threatening to kick my skinny ass.

He challenged me to a fight every night for three weeks.

One night he found graffiti in the toilet depicting him being sodomized by his father.
He needed a fight, and I was the only other cracker on the shift.

I was standing in the produce area when “muscles” strutted in and kissed both biceps, then shoved me, then he stepped back in his “fighting stance”, legs spread, elbows out, chin high.

He stepped in; I faded right, then shot out the left, and plucked off his glasses. Muscles stood frozen in a daze and then returned to work.

Later he brought me a letter addressed to my family, apologizing for killing me over a “debt of honor.”

I laughed hysterically as he described what a killing machine he was. The laughter broke him, and he began to sob about being deprived of his test of manhood. What a mental case.

Really think this is a rare case?

How about the karate people we know. What percentage would you think believes each to be the "toughest monkey" on the hill?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:25 pm

V>>

Van,

Good question! I have come across many different martial artists in different styles. The humblest ones definitely don't toot their own horn in recognition but walk with quiet assurance and are usually better gentlemen.

The more insecure ones with an agenda on proving themselves are definitely more out spoken and appear to be 'legends in their own mind' with much false bravado. Many beef up assuming because they are big, they are bad. Not so.

Maybe out of every 10-15 that come into a class feel one will show up having something to prove. That person either ends up being a bully, if they make rank...or drops out because he (sorry, but usually a male with a lot of testosterone) was not allowed to beat up people.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:07 am

your lights out

Can you defend against an uppercut?

Also you cannot hope to defend against a good puncher if you don’t know how to punch, same, as you cannot defend against a blade if you don’t know how a blade is used.

Standard karate punches are no match for a good puncher.

The most common skill you will be up against in a street fight is not martial arts, but boxing.

In the photo above, Tyson had Marvis Frazier senseless with a rapid-fire sequence of uppercuts, with his head jerking and bobbing eerily atop his powerful frame.

If you cannot deal with punches like the above, you have no business teaching people how to block a “punch”_

How do you teach your students to block an uppercut? Can you throw an uppercut?

You can be the toughest karate person in the world but you can get dazed senseless or knocked out into a heap on the ground even by “light taps” _

Given that a solid hit to the head always results in some form of cerebral concussion, that can result in either unconsciousness or a groggy state that makes it impossible for the victim of an attack to continue, I think it unconscionable to sell our students the idea that they are prepared to block punches to the head by the standard performance of our kumites that don’t teach how to punch or deal with punches mostly encountered in the street.

Here is what you can expect on the street, assuming no weapons:

1] In spite of your beloved skills, you can be hit, dazed, and unable to continue to defend yourself.

2] You can be knocked to the ground and will not be able to get back on your feet , although remaining conscious.

3] You can be knocked unconscious, and then beaten to a pulp as you lie there helpless.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:11 am

Bill Glasheen>>

Another thing to consider is that two common practices - parrying and controlling the elbow - work no matter what angle the punch comes in. It may need some slight modifications for a particular angle, but practice makes perfect.

I'm a BIG preacher of parry before "block" as a standard practice in either wauke or generic karate block.

Doing so creates both quick defenses as well as offers the opportunity to use the "block" as an attack or controlling movement. And controlling the elbow also changes the mindset from defense to offense.

Hope that helps the discussion.

- Bill
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:23 am

The violence trigger

If you envision a defensive encounter, a fight on the street, in a bar, in a crowded place, anywhere where a fight is likely to break out, and assuming it will be with a single opponent [most likely not] _

What will be the engagement catalyst and what will be the relative sense of justification for you and your opponent to be resolved by violence.

1] Is your attacker some kind of a punk who has suddenly decided you owe him?

2] Is he a violent alcoholic suffering from self hatred because he is too young, too old, too fat, too thin, may feel he has a junk body, can’t find a girlfriend, has a S*hit job, and hates what life is doing to him, and he has resolved to make you pay for his frustrations?


3] Will he be conflicted beyond help, wrong for what he is about to do, and is aware of it?

4] Will he be a guilt ridden crack head incapable of sustained, focused aggression?

5] Or a dope fiend willing to kill for ten minutes with your credit card?

6] Is he taking uncharacteristic aggression because of domestic or work related hassles or rejection?

**

This establishes the state of mind controlling the moment.

What about you? What justification do you dream about that will send messages both to you and the person about to engage?

Think of the way you speak to people, the things you imply with your speech, mannerism, treatment of people, are you an arrogant pompous ass in public and in private? A righteous know it all?

In one of my cases that I investigated [premises liability] a guy approached a man and his wife and casually asked, “So tell me how did you two happen to meet?”

He was almost killed by the infuriated husband. So what was the trigger?


The bloodiest fights are between parties who both feel justified


La fond writes that awareness of justification responses, based on knowledge of your antagonist’s worldview, is essential.

The ability to avoid giving away that sense of justification will reduce the intensity of an encounter and the likelihood of a worst-case scenario.

La Fond provides some brutal incidents from violence, reflecting dialogue that touched off or intensified the encounter.

Again, I like him because he talks the “street” as opposed to dojo fantasy.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:28 am

The message from La-Fond has more to do with “knowing yourself” in anticipation of engagement, doing your “homework” in developing a sense of conflict before you can deal with it effectively. This is the mindset we often bring up in this forum.

Also, while it is true that many attacks occur in surprise fashion, there are many that do not, usually replete with pre-fight indicators, minute as they might be...read Rory's books and learn.

If you see the potential assailant at all, before it comes to blows, the subconscious must be educated in automatic prediction of role assignment, body typing and character of “you vs. him”_

Even more important, many fights escalate by our crass behavior that many times compounds after a “few drinks” at a bar or at a party or in mixed company “high” _ and we don’t even seem to understand why.

It is like driving along on the highway at the speed limit, not doing anything to antagonize other drivers, that you know of, but someone starts to cut you off and give you the finger for no apparent reason. In his mind_ you did him wrong.

At the opposite end of the “spectrum” __ Many of us are not very careful what we say to people, we toss out subliminal racial or ethnic slurs, make “cute” remarks, and even “insult” someone who is or might be armed.

We need to be more careful in how we talk to people or there will be a price to pay.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:32 am

Street corner in East Baltimore at night

The subject was irritated with a group of young men who failed to respond to his request for directions. Noticing that one was black, he said “Well, you can’t be all too smart if you are out partying with niggers”
When the group turned to face him, he said, “Oh, you are niggers”

He was knifed.
[La Fond]

The message of La fond in the context this was presented seems to be:

“Are you sure you can finish what you started?”

Many MA practitioners think they can even though they have never even seen a real fight.

The following by Tony is more real than people have difficulty in believing:

Belief is not the same thing as when you convince yourself you believe with dozens of self-affirmations repeated daily. That creates a false belief or delusion. This house of mirrors that some people create for themselves will always shatter in the face of reality.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:36 am

RA Miller »

I call them hooks, sometimes. It's not the predators or the ones in the monkey dance, usually.

It's the aggressive ones who want to hurt somebody, usually to assuage a recent blow to their ego who look for hooks.

The hooks are their justifications to convince themselves that the victim is the bad guy.

Not giving away hooks is a skill. Lee talks about it in several threads in the VSD forum and I think it was what the "computer mode" was designed to deny.

Insults are a common try- the EBG says something. If you argue or protest, the EBG can they say to himself "There must be some truth to it and it looks like he's getting upset. I'd better hit him cause he's about to start it."

Clearly, the EBG is trying to start it. But not in his mind, and his mind is where the justification will come from.


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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:46 am

Know yourself

With training over long years you might reach a point where you are pretty decent physically, or at least you think so.

You will be tested physically, to be sure, but you will also face the test of emotional pressure in routine questioning or even interrogations, out of various situations, job interview, police investigations, job security interrogations, street woofing, and the like.

You have to start by being honest with yourself in appraising your emotional strengths and weaknesses. A questioner/interrogator, will tailor his tactics according to the subject before him.

A few questions then:

1.Are you fast on your feet mentally?

2.How is your resistance to psychological pressure? Do you feel the need to speak up to fill periods of silence?

3.In your past interviews, such as job hunting, have you usually spoken too much, volunteering information that wasn’t needed? Do you think you can learn to control your runaway mouth?

4.Can you control your emotions? Can you reply to an accusation without showing either fright or anger?

5.Do you have a strong need to be liked? Does this affect your relations with people you hardly know? Does it leave you open to emotional bullying by an interrogator?

6.Can you withstand the emotional attrition of an interrogation away from friends and family?


Most people are in denial about this as much as they are in denial about their abilities of self-defense because of their traditional training.

Do you have powerful friends who can bail you out in case of trouble? Do you make friends easily, or are you usually shunned?
Do other people like to be in your company?


Are you really mentally prepared to get through questioning or interrogations or the “woofing” on the street?

Do you hate yourself for becoming a target of a homeless person “unloading” on you?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:53 am

Before you can learn to deal with this, you first must evaluate the situation you are in, the problem, if any, facing you, as well as the consequences you might face as a result of this “interrogation” _

This will have a lot to do with whether you play “Dumb” or you “stand up for your rights” _

Then you also must appraise the “interrogator” __ like who the F** is this guy? And what’s in it for him?

Is he playing “buddy-buddy” with you? Going to first names quickly to gain emotional control, conning you and lowering your guard?

For example, I have handled suits against security companies when overzealous security people crossed the line with customers or family members of hospital patients in a number of situations that would make your blood boil to the point where you want to kill someone and in a few cases it almost came to that.

Some of those situations involved security people accusing customers/patrons of a crime, isolating them in a room, asking penetrating questions, shoving papers in front of them requesting a signature to get themselves off the hook or giving them the “silent treatment” knowing that people under stress normally talk to fill gaps to reduce the tension.

Someone accused of a crime and kept in suspense awaiting the interrogator’s attention, will feel compelled to say something and may become careless in what he says.

How about the “good cop/bad cop” trick?

Best thing to do if ever hassled by security people is to say you want to call the police and do it.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:56 am

Mark W »

Van,
I recently had an occurance that got me thinking about the parallels between a physical’ attack and a ‘mental’ attack.

A few nights back I was picking up some groceries from a local mall. I’d had a terrible nights sleep and a bad day at work and I was in a really low mental state.

While walking along in a daze I was collared by one of those ‘hard sell’ type sales guys operating out of a booth in the middle of the mall.

Usually I am polite but firm with these guys but almost before I knew it I had signed a contract for a credit card I didn’t need.

I shocked myself because this was something I would never do under normal circumstances. I continued shopping but I started to get mad at myself for being ‘suckered’ into something I didn’t want.

After a short while I went back and asked for the contract I had signed and tore it up.

While talking to my wife about it I considered how in a way it was kind of like a street confrontation.

You’re minding your own business in a street, bar, whatever and your train of thought is broken by a question (the hook)

Salesman: “Excuse me sir, may I ask you a question?”

Thug: “What are you looking at?”

If you stop and engage in a dialouge at this point you will be on the back foot.

The salesman has a set goal in mind and a plan of how to get there.

Whereas you have been walking along thinking about your shopping. The salesman presses his advantage by dumping a whole lot of information about his product on you and asking you a lot of questions.

You are mentally kept ‘off balance’ until the salesman sees the right time to get you to sign the paper, buy the product, etc.

Once I was hooked by the first salesman another two came over to help with the hard sell. They were very cocky, overfriendly and went straight to first names.

However when I returned the situation was almost completely reversed. I had a purpose and my return was not part of the plan.

When they saw me walking toward the booth they looked dissapointed and all tried to avoid me. I walked up to the first salesman I had talked to asked for my contract back.

This time I was initiating the dialouge and he was on the back foot.

Me: “Give me the contract I signed”
Him: “Why, (stalling).. I can’t find it”
Me: “How did you lose it? Please find it.”
Him: “I’m not allowed to give it to you”
Me: “Why not?”

Later I tried to justify my mental weakness by saying to myself that I was tired, stressed, distracted, etc. But like a street confrontation, that’s when their likely to get you, isn’t it?

I hope this makes sense and is not too far off topic.

Cheers,
Mark
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:59 am

Salesman: “Excuse me sir, may I ask you a question?”

You: sorry I don't have time...keep walking.

Thug: “What are you looking at?”

You: Sorry you looked familiar...my mistake...and keep walking.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:02 am

Your “vacillation” is sensed on a verbal or psychological plane and your ‘adversary’ wrests control away from you. This is seen often when dealing with car salesmen; it is a control game.

Usually what happens when someone fails to accept “no” is for you to give ever-weakening refusals and then give in.

If a person gives you reason to feel apprehensive, such as a pushy salesperson, security guard, boss from hell, or overbearing sensei, during a “negotiation” stage, remember that negotiations are about “possibilities” and providing access to someone who makes you uncomfortable, usually will bury you emotionally, or worse.

Take the case of the salesmen ... They follow the same process of victim selection as a criminal would, in reading signals from someone who will allow them/him to be in control to further his agenda. Many of the signals are non-verbal.

It is like “backing up” in a physical confrontation. Your enemy sees that and becomes “master” of the situation developing.
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