BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

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BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Rick Wilson » Sun May 13, 2018 7:24 am

Van has said before that just because a person is trained, or a black belt, it doesn't mean they are invincible.

This clip is violent as it shows a death and while we don't know what lead up to it we can see the two men getting out of a car and off a motorcycle. The man from the car is a Black belt and the man from the bike pulls a gun.

We don't know what is being said but the unarmed man (the black belt) continues to press forward on the armed man who is backing up and away and the conclusion is inevitable.

The BJJ instructor's commentary on this page covers it all very well:

https://www.jiujitsutimes.com/bjj-black-belt-and-accomplished-competitor-killed-in-road-rage-incident/
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Josann » Sun May 13, 2018 10:27 am

Rick Wilson wrote:Van has said before that just because a person is trained, or a black belt, it doesn't mean they are invincible.

This clip is violent as it shows a death and while we don't know what lead up to it we can see the two men getting out of a car and off a motorcycle. The man from the car is a Black belt and the man from the bike pulls a gun.

We don't know what is being said but the unarmed man (the black belt) continues to press forward on the armed man who is backing up and away and the conclusion is inevitable.

The BJJ instructor's commentary on this page covers it all very well:

https://www.jiujitsutimes.com/bjj-black-belt-and-accomplished-competitor-killed-in-road-rage-incident/



This quote from the article has an obvious answer:
“Why would a trained martial artist continue to advance aggressively on an armed opponent who appears to be behaving defensively?“

Arrogance. Because I could easily get this guy to tap out in the dojo, I can beat his ass out here. Wrong. Points out the difference between self defense and fighting, two distinctly different things. Black belt made many mistakes , but the biggest one was thinking he had a sucker on the line. And a weapon negates any training a dojo fighter has, which is why so many street people carry weapons.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 13, 2018 4:18 pm

Thank you Rick for the thread, and thank you Josann for the very sage and insightful comments.

Josann nails right here
This quote from the article has an obvious answer:
“Why would a trained martial artist continue to advance aggressively on an armed opponent who appears to be behaving defensively?“

Arrogance. Because I could easily get this guy to tap out in the dojo, I can beat his ass out here. Wrong.

Points out the difference between self defense and fighting, two distinctly different things.

Black belt made many mistakes , but the biggest one was thinking he had a sucker on the line.

And a weapon negates any training a dojo fighter has, which is why so many street people carry weapons.


Very sad indeed and this happens more often than you would think. I have given you a few examples of it in the 'mega thread' Good talk on blocks...i.e., the Uechi black belt who felt invincible against three opponents [teacher had told him...'anyone violating his sanchin would be dead']=two months in the hospital/

Uechi black belt idiots who went to the combat zone in Boston to 'prove' their superiority in street fights [one of them beaten so bad he almost died]_

Tournament champion black belt who set himself up for a ritual killing by a Jamaican gangbanger in a darkened stairs landing...because he had taken up with the gangbanger ex girl friend...and would not listen to wise advice after finding out he was being stalked...

Then the famous Alex Gong case, similar to the one Rick posted...
A world champion Thai-style kickboxer was shot to death in the middle of a busy San Francisco street Friday after he chased down a hit-and-run driver who had slammed into his parked car minutes earlier.

Alex Gong, 30, was pronounced dead at the scene on Fifth Street near Harrison Street. Witnesses said he was shot at point-blank range when he confronted the driver, who apparently waited for a traffic signal to turn green before opening fire and speeding away.

Gong, who had been working out at the South of Market training gym he runs at 444 Clementina St., was wearing yellow boxing gloves and boxing trunks when he was killed.


The arrogance/invincibility factor has also been seen here on my forum in the past by some individuals most of you 'got to know' well, both on line and in person.

Unfortunately this a very common martial arts disease that creeps into practitioners, something very insidious...and this has been well documented by Rory Miller.

It is almost as though there is a 'little red devil' tapping the back of a practitioner's head trying to convince him he can win against multiple opponents because he can hit 'so hard' or can move in on guns and knives because he has won so many tournaments or some half ass fight against a stumble bum in the street.

And the 'little red devil' also keeps whispering "Uechi is a closet style...so you need to move in on the attacker to win"

The practitioner not realizing that moving in greatly increases the chances of getting stabbed by a sudden blade moving in for an introduction he will never forget provided he doesn't end up on a slab.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 13, 2018 4:27 pm

And this from Don Rearic...very apropos here
I try my best to live by the words of Massad Ayoob:

When you are armed, you give up the right to give someone the finger in traffic.

This is because you can start a violent chain of events that leads to an unnecessary tragedy.

I extend that to being unarmed because any number of strikes in a violent, unarmed confrontation could end up the same way.

Using O.C. Pepper Spray on someone who is trying to pull you out of a vehicle could result in their being temporarily blinded and being hit by other traffic.

You just don't want to be confrontational, violent, or maniacal in your vehicle.

Too bad so many others have not learned this lesson, but one hopes that they run into the wrong person who then kicks their ass and teaches them.

The most important lesson in all of this, however, is that if you are one of the idiots and you think you have carte blanche to act this way...be careful of whom you decide to tailgate, give the finger to, and all of these other things.

You might just do it to an off-duty police officer and end up in more trouble than you know how to get out of.

And...don't vent your angry spleen at the person who won't break the law for you.

Don't follow them to "give them a piece of your mind," because you obviously don't have enough to spare by giving away a piece of it.

They might just clobber you, in fear for their life, because you are acting like a mental patient in your car -- especially so if you decide to stalk them to wherever they are going and confront them.

You might end up with a face full of Pepper Spray and a tennis shoe in your crotch for your trouble.

Woe be onto you if you exit your vehicle with something like an axe-handle or tire iron.

You might just get shot.

And you know what? The other person would be justified in doing so because you have no right to do this.

If you followed them home (or wherever they were going), they exited their vehicle, you exited yours, and you confronted them with a weapon, they could legally shoot you.

You might get run over as well, so don't think you get a "pass" on acting like a fool in a state that does not allow concealed carry.

The message to those of you who also become frustrated with the mobile psychotics of the world is this:

Don't confront these dullards. Do not provoke them.

Do not smile at them or nod your head as they give you the finger.

Just ignore them and, hopefully, they will go away and rush on to their next abomination in life.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 13, 2018 4:30 pm

And then there is the combination of 'Arrogance' with the 'emotional high-jacking'

The Lizard Brain Takes Over

The important thing that we need to realize, is that when happens, when we become crazed with rage or fear, lash out in ways we didn’t mean, verbally or physically.

Afterwards, we can find ourselves scratching our heads as to why we do or say such an awful thing. Or, why someone else might have done so. It can be quite bewildering.

This is precisely what happens when people argue. Whether it is with a beloved spouse or some idiot on the freeway who is driving too fast and cutting you off, it’s the same phenomenon.


https://www.hypno4success.com/communication-breakdowns/
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 13, 2018 4:32 pm

The scary fact is, you weren’t ‘thinking.’ You were in a state of being “emotionally hijacked” or in “affective blindness.”

It is helpful to understand this emotional hijacking phenomenon both while you’re in the middle of such a state. It is not uncommon to come to calmer awareness later, not remembering what was said or what to say now.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 14, 2018 6:05 am

And a weapon negates any training a dojo fighter has, which is why so many street people carry weapons.


When you watch any class, Uechi or otherwise, you are struck by the 'assumptions' the teacher is 'selling' ...in particular when no mention ever is made of the likely possibility that an opponent a student is likely to tangle with, will be armed with some kind of weapon which may appear/be pulled suddenly/forever changing the confrontation equation...as it has been said here there is a difference between the dojo games and the street.

We saw this when two of our Uechi brothers were ambushed in the parking lot of the restaurant one of them owns in Brockton, by multiple opponents.

One of the brothers will never forget the words 'Why don't just shoot this Mother F@#$' as he lay down with punches and kicks raining on him while being dragged into the middle of the street to be run over by cars/trucks speeding there at night.

There is a question out there
Why don't more Americans take up martial arts instead of carrying guns?


Easy answer
Mostly because criminals are going to shoot you when you start imitating Jackie Chan. You start screaming and flailing, they’ll simply point their gun at you and kill you.

You: Hiiiiiyah!

Them: Bang.

Probably with a great deal of nonchalance about the whole affair.

I know that some martial artists claim their hands are lethal weapons, but unless you’re really good, yours probably aren’t even as good as butter knives.


When you are in class as a student or as a teacher ...and learn some moves etc., the question you need to address over and over is...how will you know you are up against a 'fist fight' and how will you know there is a weapon on the opponent and an intent to use it on you?

And how do you tell that you are possibly screwed in any fight all the time until you die…in about fifteen seconds...about the length of time we see in the video.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 14, 2018 6:11 am

Oh, just a side note. You need to find the fountain of youth, sooner rather than later.

Martial arts aren’t going to be that valuable when you’re working on your third set of knee replacements, your left hip clicks with each step, and your doctor has diagnosed you with osteoporosis... and your 'weapons' will fracture like glass when you are lucky to land a hit on someone.

But, uh, good luck with the crane technique.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 14, 2018 6:22 am

As we have read and seen in the video above, you can run into a weapon/gun/knife even when confronting a non criminal opponent anytime anywhere.

You might recall the case I had where a guy confronted a 'pizza man' behind the counter and was knifed right through the belly with a 12 inch pizza knife in West Roxbury.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 14, 2018 6:26 am

The gun is the great equalizer. The Martial Art is the long-term, education and enhancement to one's life in every aspect, and it improves your odds of success in most every situation, but we are not bullet proof, nor invulnerable.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 14, 2018 3:30 pm

It is a double edge sword. When training in combative arts the ego can lead you to self-fulfillment and awareness. This results in improvement and growth.

Or your ego can force you to live in a distorted world of perception, devoid of any realistic thought or, more importantly realistic and functional training. Our ego and our own misperception of our ability can be destructive.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby hoshin » Mon May 14, 2018 4:25 pm

this is a lesson that is taught in economic game theory. there are two different types of games. there are finite games and infinite games.

MMA and a lot of martial arts foster a finite game mentality. the players are known, there is a set time with a rule set and there is an ending with a winner.

but real life is an infinite game. by definition that means there are a series of games where one has to wake up the next morning and play again and again.

if you have a finite strategy you win or you lose that one encounter. maybe you wake up the next morning or maybe your dead.

but the game is infinite and doesnt end there. if you wake up the next morning you have to deal with all of the consequences from the previous day.

your strategy for the game/ fight has to account for waking up and dealing with the consequences of your actions and your non actions.

real life happens along a time line and only one little dot represents the combative event. there is the before and the after math that also has to be addressed.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Tue May 15, 2018 12:11 am

What a great post. Thanks Hoshin.

Please elaborate as much as you can/wish...because it is precisely what's needed for the average martial artist nailed to the cross of delusions.

Image

This is precisely what killed the tournament black belt champion in the stairwell where the gangbanger almost cut his head clean off.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby Van Canna » Tue May 15, 2018 4:37 am

I posted:

You might recall the case I had where a guy confronted a 'pizza man' behind the counter and was knifed right through the belly with a 12 inch pizza knife in West Roxbury.

Case in point where closing in on an opponent [because you think Uechi or some other style...is a 'closet' fighting style and you must move in on someone to 'win']
will get you stabbed [in this case the pizza man behind the counter just took the big pizza knife he kept handy an put it through the 'closer's' belly much to his surprise]

And in the video Rick posted...closing in on someone with a gun got him shot and killed.

Sometimes when I watch some teachers in a Uechi class, it makes me shudder at the enormous tactical mistakes they make as they teach...

...this became even more evident to me after training under the lethal force trainers at the Lethal Force Institute, going through their 'duelatron' scenario with guns/knives/improvised weapons.

Josann talks about 'arrogance' of the martial artist...yes...plus total stupidity in closing in on someone pointing a gun while under the influence of the chemical cocktail...which not too many martial arts 'champion' have a real clue of its affects, physically and emotionally.
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Re: BJJ Black Belt Competitor Killed in Road Rage incident

Postby hoshin » Wed May 16, 2018 4:36 pm

im not an economist nor am i a John Nash (from the movie Beautiful mind) who earned the noble prize for his contributions to this field. but i do understand the basic concept. game theory is largely about mathematical equations that calculate out all the possibilities and can predict a "best case scenario". what it shows, for us as martial artists is that what is traditionally called a "win" may not be the best outcome. it is one outcome of many. the best strategic outcome may be for both partied to walk away with equal status. by that i mean the gains and losses are equal for both while minimizing the damage.
the old adage win the battle but lose the war comes to mind. in a deadly encounter you may be successful in using a firearm to shoot and kill your attacker but if you die from blood loss 20 min after he does, that cant really be a win either.
my point was and is that the strategy, fighting to win as you would in the ring or dojo is a loosing strategy when you figure in the aftermath of the fight.
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