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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 1999 4:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30251
From today's Globe ;

An ex-con recidivist , just out prison for having previously stabbed a man in the stomach , broke into his ex girl friend's apartment at 4 am , caught her in bed in bed with another man and attacked him bare handed !

The attack left a blood trail from the second floor bedroom down to the kitchen where the assailant repeatedly kicked the man to death as he lay on the floor ! The kitchen floor was left splashed with blood ! The murderer then dragged the body out of the house , through the back door , down the stairs and back behind the house where it was left to lay in the paved over backyard !

How would you have fared in his shoes [ the victim] ! Half asleep in bed , probably naked ,[think you could fight naked ?] caught unaware by a determined , ruthless killer ! Could not happen to you , right ? After all you are a well conditioned high dan rank …..with impeccable lineage ! Reminds me of the case I handled a few years back when this karate guy coming down the stairs from his new girl friend's apartment , was ambushed by the ex boyfriend , a gang banger in a Jamaican band , in the middle landing of the building where he was repeatedly stabbed , then rolled down by the entrance lobby where his throat was slashed in a final scream of agony while the tenants remained safely behind their apartments doors , one of them holding onto a shotgun frozen in terror by the horrible fracas !

What lessons do we see here ?


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Van Canna


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 1999 7:46 am 
My wife was recently at a seminar where the speaker told a story about his seventeen year old son. They live in a peaceful northern British Columbia town. One evening a friend dropped him off on the highway outside of town. The friend was heading elsewhere and he wanted a quiet walk. Not long into his quiet walk a car stopped and three men he had never seen before leapt out. They beat him severely then pinned him to the ground as one pulled out a razor. They joking discussed whether or not they should kill him. In the end they decided just to have some fun and slash up his face. A quiet walk home in a peaceful country town. Random assault, no way to track down the bad guys.

Nope, can't happen to me.

Rick


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 1999 10:34 am 
About two months ago, in the middle of the night, someone in a rage and with criminal intentions, broke into one of my students' apartment, went into the bedroom and attacked my student while he was sleeping.

My student fared much better than the above, had the intruder arrested and pressed charges. The intruder/assailant is now bringing my student to court! Figure that one out?

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Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 06-23-99).]


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 1999 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
The only thing I could tell someone is PREVENTION.

Watch who you date, who you sleep with. Really. I know it's easier said than done, but that's the only way you can prevent being beaten to death by the crazy ex boyfriend. Besides, if crazy ex thinks you know karate he'll come after you armed or with some back up. I saw some women when I was single that I thought looked good but were Trouble.

No one should walk along the road alone either. Not in an area with low traffic. There was a grissly murder in my hometown decades ago where they found a young boy mutilated on the side of the road. I remember I had a close call when I was a teenager--some weirdo tried to pull up in a truck and ask for directions. Instinct told me to keep stepping backwards as I yelled "I don't know. Then he tried to drive a little towards me and I backed up more. Then he opened the door with this weird predatory look on his face and I reached down and threw a couple of rocks at him. Mind you, I COMPLETELY FORGOT that I had a stick in my hand and all of my TKD training! When he covered up I BOLTED. Didn't know I could run that fast! That cured me of walking alone during times of low traffic!

Another story that shows how dumb the law is:

An old friend of the family (and father figure to me and many other men when we were young, rest his soul, he was a good man) nearly got arrested when he was alive. Picture this: a 60 year old man carrying groceries gets assaulted by three teenagers. He takes out a razor and cuts them, YES, all three of them before they run off. Guess who the cops want to arrest for carrying a concealed weapon? Mind you the only reason he didn't go to jail was because another cop showed up and shamed the officer into letting him go. This was a guy who was a war veteran. So it's okay for him to spend a good chunk of his youth fighting for this country (and at a time where black people had it tough in the military) yet when he's old he's not supposed to defend himself against three idiots, whom he later found out had records a mile long.

What sense does it all make? NONE.



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Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 1:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 11
Location: Truro, NS Canada
Moe what is a CCW license?

In Canada with our very hard gun laws, a knife is about the best personal protection available.


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 2:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2427
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Hello All:

Well, most times I tend to ramble.

Here I simply say DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN DO AND HANDLE to protect yourseld and your family.

Take martial arts.
Tell your school to have better security
Learn and teach that the road to self protection is not evil!
call NPR and say MA would be good for our kids in the schools!!
Preach it!!

John



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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 4:19 am 
Hello Robert.

I just read today in the Toronto sun that the head of the Police Association of Ontario wants to dump Canada's new gun registration law.

Maybe he's pretty smart too.
<hr>
Hello Joe,

I believe it. I was once in a situation where I was scared half-to-death by an intruder and moved around my apartment clenching a handgun with a 'death' grip in what turned out to be a false alarm.

I once kept a loaded .45 with one in the chamber under my pillow until I woke up in the middle of the night with my hand under the pillow. NO MO after that; replaced it. Tire irons don't go off accidentally. Two places I lived caused me to be paranoid like that until one day I grew out of it.

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Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 5:27 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 25
Location: bridgewater ma. u.s.a
I saw this in the paper the other night
. I hope i would do well,but doubt it.
being half a sleep or a sleep. Like cecil said ,I dont date trouble ( un-
less she's built like a brick **** house.) but seriously if they have psycho ex's why bother. I went down that path to many times. and i also agree
that if someone knows you train , he's bringing something to help him get the job done! I dont care if your the best
fighter , shooter , grappler, or talk
on vans page to mind set yourself . YOUR ALL DONE!!!!!
But like van said before, theres things
you can do to not,i should say help prevent it. I used to live on the first
floor in my house with my parents, my
bed room was in back toward the woods.
I slepted with a gun between the mattress.
i also put a large t.v. infront of one
window, and a large desk infront of the
other. then i'd lock the door every night. so if someone tryed to get in.
i'd hear something fall or brake to wake
my ass up to get the gun. (whitch i keep loaded with one in the chamber.) becouse
dont even try to tell me its wrong !!
you wont have time to chamber one!!
safety on ,but i practice getting it
out & shutting off the safety.just like
kata. i also try to identify sounds
in the house ( you know uechi-sense's )
dont think they dont work !!!
One more quick story. i came home late
one night when i lived at home.about 2:30 i lived in the finnished basment.
no sooner i was in the house i heard
foot steps. but i notced I HEARD SHOES
talk about the cem.cocktail/heart rate
i thought my chest was goning to explode
i got my gun , and all i was thinking
my parents were dead!! and this guy
was up stairs going threw the house.
when i got to the stairs they were
in the kitchen. i started up the stairs
slow , but the steps were creeking.
i sh*t you not,i was never so scared
in my life.but i was ready to kill.
just thinking my parents dead? so i
rushed the door slid on my side with
the gun pointing towrds the foot steps.
THERES MY MOTHER saying "what the hell are you doing.not even scared or mad.
I said meeeeeee what are you doing with
shoe's on ????? she just bought new slippers with hard soles. i explained
what was going on. instead of being mad
she was happy to know that i was trying
to save them.I kid you not this really
happen.

chow

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Joe


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 5:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Cecil,

The cop was doing his job and enforcing the concealed carry laws of your state. Unfortunately, as so often happens, the victim becomes the perpetrator and the scum slinks off into the night. Luckily for the old guy, the second cop had more empathy than the first.

Solution? Get a CCW license and slice away!!


Allen,

What charges is the intruder-turned-victim bringing against your student? Is he claiming the old reverse self-defense trick?

Moe Mensale


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Robert,

A "CCW" is a state issued license to carry concealed weapons. Here in Florida, the official title is "Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License." Florida does not allow open carry of deadly or non-deadly (pepper spray, etc.) weapons except under very specific circumstances (going to a gun range, etc.).

The CCW allows me, technically, to be a walking arsenal, as long as everything is out of sight. I may have some explaining to do to the sheriff, however, but that is a different story!

Maybe someday the powers-that-be in Canada will wake up to the fact that "man" has an intrinsic right to defend his life.


Back to Van's original question, no one seems to be willing to give an opinion as to how well (or not) they would fare under the situation presented. This has got to be the most extreme position to find yourself in. Completely in condition white, in the dark and totally vulnerable (naked).

Assuming you aren't killed right off, I would think that once your brain has engaged itself and started processing information, you would immediately revert to a "cornered animal" state of mind in an attempt to defeat the assailant. Think about it - you really don't know what is happening or who is doing it. How you react would really depend on how well you have assimilated any survival training.

Or maybe you would just react on basic primal instinct. Who, what, where, why is not important at this point - your survival is all that matters.

"But what if the attacker is my lover/mate/friend/housekeeper/whatever?" Let's not even go there!! The only point is survival - you have to act - or you die.

Can we really handle it? Are we confident in our abilities? Can we fight naked?

Moe Mensale


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Moe Mensale


[This message has been edited by Moe Mensale (edited 06-24-99).]


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 1999 7:17 pm 
Maybe George should start a firearms forum?

Here's a quote from a Florida newspaper: "But if gun control reduced crime, then America would have had more crime when there was no gun control and less crime after it was put into place. The exact opposite is the reality. That's because humans, not inanimate objects, commit crimes."


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Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 1999 12:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2075
Location: Boston, MA
The lesson is to realy know who you are sleeping with and with whom they have been involved . Image (I'm semi serious here.)

We can speculate about what we would or would not do in that person's place. But would anyone of us REALLY know until we are there, or have been there?

david


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 1999 4:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30251
Cecil,

Wise words ! I could give dozens of examples of " replacement boyfriends" blinded by the new romance , end up severely beaten or dead because they were either unsuspecting or macho in their " minds" about the potential threat ! They had decided that a good piece of a** was worth a chance !

You wrote : "Then he opened the
door with this weird predatory look on his face and I reached down
and threw a couple of rocks at him. Mind you, I COMPLETELY
FORGOT that I had a stick in my hand and all of my TKD training!"

Now you know there will be people arguing with you on this ; i.e., not the proper "lineage" , right style , right sensei from The orient ad nauseum ! There are documented cases where trained police officers with 20 years on the force forgot they were carrying a back up gun in an ankle holster when their primary weapon was either taken away or went empty on them ; and they got shot as a result !

Even a good karate -kA might forget 90% of his training under extreme fear and revert back to a hominid primate as Moe puts it ! But they will never admit that ; They are right now dwelling in their "cocoon " clutching their extra wide black belt [ takes a firmer grip on their coffins] , that is why they have problems answering this post as Moe pointed out !

You wrote : "So it's okay for him to
spend a good chunk of his youth fighting for this country (and at a
time where black people had it tough in the military) yet when he's
old he's not supposed to defend himself against three idiots, whom
he later found out had records a mile long.

What sense does it all make? NONE."

Most citizens either fear guns/weapons of any kind or are brainwashed by a passive and fearful society to avoid them ! Thus they become safe candidates for victimization ! It has been written that for the most part the USA has become a Nation of cowards !

Evidence the disapproval shown by the majority of people when a courageous citizen takes forceful action to stop a crime in motion even if he is preventing the homicide of some innocent victim !
Most city dwellers fit in this category , sad but true ; The criminal element refers to them as "white bread" !

Consider the mugger who is allowed to sue his elderly woman victim for defending herself with a weapon ! She does not have the right insurance coverage and must spend thousands upon thousands of dollars just to defend herself ! A losing proposition no matter what the verdict ! Consider the gun prohibition upon school grounds ! The deranged punks with guns know they will not run a chance of facing a blazing gun , so they attack brazenly !

Some people , the brain dead , actually have posted signs on their property " no guns in this household so be my guest " usually their wish comes true ! Easy pickings !

Moe

You have the best observation ! You wrote :" I would think that once your
brain has engaged itself and started processing information, you
would immediately revert to a "cornered animal" state of mind in an
attempt to defeat the assailant. Think about it - you really don't
know what is happening or who is doing it. How you react would
really depend on how well you have assimilated any survival training."

Then" no one seems to be willing to give
an opinion as to how well (or not) they would fare under the
situation presented. "

Think about it ! Probably 9 out of 10 of us are in denial over it and are fantasizing how we would dispatch the assailant quickly with our Lineage Uechi …we think ..what difference does it make " fight naked or fully clothed I will be just as effective " !

According to research and information compiled by the LFI instructors , not so at all , it does make a difference ! That is__ if you will be able to fight at all under the extreme convulsive response !

"revert to a "cornered animal" state of mind in an
attempt to defeat the assailant." {Moe}

You will be in a state of panic being awakened by vicious blows of a madman bent on killing you ! The primitive brain _ brain stem_will take over and will shut down your thinking process as your most extreme chemical cocktail gets launched ! You may be a strutting hot shot high dan parading yourself in front of the dojo mirror on tip toes , but at that moment , naked , without the amulets of your gi and black belt , you will feel more so like a baby in the jaws of a jackal , with high anxiety robbing you of perceptual motor coordination and motor skills and will take bizarre actions such as the ones recorded in action by very skilled soldiers , such as freezing in place , attempting irrational acts or repeating the same ineffectual skills !



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: BEATEN TO DEATH
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 1999 6:27 am 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 71
Location: LOS ANGELES
Dear All,

Great thread! I notice a couple of "war stories" have finally trickled out. Better late than never. Please- keep them coming!

Best wishes,
PHIL


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