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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 1999 1:34 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 25
Location: bridgewater ma. u.s.a
VAN, maybe this was a topic before?

ive been in situations before were
young punks ( younger than 16 ) do
something , say something, throw ect.
I usually stop and pretend to chase,
yell that sort of stuff. But a couple
times they front you!! i know i
can beat the crap out of them. but i
know & they know i cant. becouse the
laws. of course if they threaten my life thats self defense!!! but i dont
know what to do ? its like im worrying
not of the situatin but whats going to
happen after. I think one thing to do
is take the kid by the arm and go to
the closest house & knock on the door.
ask if the people now him. But the punk
could say i hurt him? or worst his
parents could be bigger *sses then
him. or i thought bring down my nephew
to kick the punks *ss!!!!!
i usually can figure out things for my-
self but this ones tough..

chow, joe





------------------


Joe


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 1999 9:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Joe,

You doing right. DON'T TOUCH THE KID(s) UNLESS BEING ATTACKED. You're defending yourself from litigation. If you know the parents, have a discussion with them about the kids' behavior (But what happens when they mirroring their parents' behavior -- OOPS! 'nother topic.) Sure, you want to punch the kids out! Take a couple deep breaths and FORGET ABOUT IT. You're doing the right thing.

david


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 1999 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
Try that "uechi glare" you guys talk about. Scare them. Maybe then they'll leave you alone.

------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 1999 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 405
Location: Tewksbury, MA USA
Joe:

For what it's worth. . .

FORGET about it!

I used to work as a police officer in Salem, NH. Invariably we would bust some punk ass kid and escort his skinny rear end back to his folks.

For the "first-timers" the parents acted as you would expect: They'd cry, yell, get pissed, what-have-you.

A TOTALLY different dynamic for the "repeat offender", though: THEY BLAME YOU!!

"Leave the poor kid alone"! "Why don't you PIGS find somebody else's kids to pick on!"

Even in car chases, we have had parents say,
"He wouldn't have ran if you didn't chase him!" And this is from parents of 14 year olds who had stolen the damn car!!

Best way to stay out of (legal) trouble is to avoid it altogether. These kids and their pathetic parents BELIEVE that they're victims of "the system". Don't give them another reason to spend another day in court. . .This time SCREWING YOU!

Let the punks mouth and play their petty ass games. Laugh the way you would laugh if a 4 year old said or did the same thing.

Remember: Most "threats" are threats to our ego, not our personal safety. Forget trying to save these punks by teaching them a lesson. Society has already been failing for 14 - 15 years. What they hell could you or me teach them in a day?

I feel your pain, man, I really do!

Gary

------------------
Gary J. Khoury
http://www.uechi-ryu.com/khoury


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 1999 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
All,

I will agree with you to leave the piss ant alone. Discretion is the better part of valor. I don't really need the aggravation of defending myself in some liberal twit's court but, unfortunately, the piss ant will then continue to grow up and think he can dominate and intimidate the population at large. What a fine, upstanding individual he will grow into, eh?

Fortunately, he will turn 18 one day....

Moe Mensale


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 1999 3:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Well, this topic is timely. I just had long, bad day at work. Driving home, I see a group of 4-5 teens on the corner and several on the street. One had his foot on a skateboard. Just when I got close, the kid pushed the skate board in front of my car. The board bounced around underneath. I stopped car thinking there may be damaged. I see two of the kids coming towards the car. I pulled out my knife and had it next to my right thigh. Kids come to about five feet from my window. The one who had the skate board said, "You ran over my board." I stared at the kid and said, "I ran over your board. (With a tone of sarcasm.) " The kid said, "Yeah, you ran over my board. I was just sitting there. You owe me $85 dollars." With the same sarcasm (and a wicked pissed off mood and a desire to thump this kid), I said, "Yeah, right... I owe you $85 dollars..." Both kids were staring at me and I was staring back. Finally, the other kid said get his license number. I drove off.

I am still pissed off, though it has a lot to do with work as a run in with some punks. I also realize if got into it with them, I would probably serious hurt or kill several of them. My knife was still in my hand as I drove off.

david


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 1999 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 244
Location: Marblehead, MA USA
You guys are right. It's more trouble than it's worth.
A friend of mine left my house and drove through Lynn. He had just purchased a Caddy Norstar which he considered a measure of his recent succcess, a little ostentatious for my own tastes but he felt he deserved it. Some punk threw a rock and hit the side of his car. He stopped, chased the kid and caught him. The buildings around there emptied out with welfare mothers who chased HIM throwing everything at him and his car. He felt he was lucky to get out of there with only some scratches. Then the Police called him to come down to the station because they had taken his number and claimed he was harassing those punks. Miraculously it never went any further.
I guess sometimes you have to stick your tail between your legs and walk away!


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 1999 1:27 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 25
Location: bridgewater ma. u.s.a
thank you all for your replies!

im glad to see im not the only one.
i'll tell you man, its hard just to walk
away.I feel if he dents my car someone
is paying!!gary khoury its tough i know
your right.even you being a cop,if you could'nt
do anything is there hope ?
david im glad nothing happen.but if
they were persistent what then?thats why
i placed this topic! if it was an adult
and something came of it the police
or courts would have to sort it out.but
throw someone 15 in there your guilty!!

chow

ps dr x your to funny.i hate shopping
too.

------------------


Joe


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 1999 11:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 244
Location: Marblehead, MA USA
Joe you crack me up, you sound like Dr. X with an accent.


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 1999 5:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 20
Location: Avondale Az USA
I had a very similar instance when I lived in a small town. One night about midnight some punks were riding in a stolen shopping cart in front of my house and banging into the fence and woke up my children. I went out and asked them politely to leave. I turned to walk away and they wouthed off to me. I was not in a mood to be messed with and grabbed one the youth and spun him around and warned him. One of the other youth said something and bolted off. I ran after him and yelled "Don't think youare going to outrun me.. you are just making me mad". he stopped and dropped into a cover on the ground and asked me not to hurt him. At this point the other kids wer shouting stuff too. My wife came out at this point and told them they were not being wise (as I am somewhat known as a hot head although I maintain impeccable control now adays) and recommended they should leave.
For weeks they vandalized our house and knocked on the doors and ran. One day I was out pushing my two children in the stroller when a group of them were playing baseketball started it up "Hey old man, want to fight now" etc etc.
I was furious since I could not jump off when my babies were in the stroller. SO I hurriedly pushed them home and went back, but the youth were gone.
I had enough. I was a respected doctor in that town (or at least a doctor) so I decided to prepare. I went to the chief of police and told him the problems I was having (emphasizing how tolerant I had been - or least saying I had been) and told him that I was in fear for my families well being and would defend myself. I wanted to appear the victim. The chief did go out and talk to the families.
The youth were still under age so I called their parents and introduced myself (while recording the conversation) and told them of the problems we were having. I then told them that since their children wanted to fight I was glad to oblige them (and I was serious) but I needed a waver signed (legal in the state) so we could engage in a no holds barred fight. The parents wisely declined and I never had any further problems.
LAter when the boys turned 18 I sought them out. One was a hefty football player who lifted at the loca gym. I went in when he was there, in front of everyone and challenged him to a fight, right then and there. He chickened out and was visibly shaking. Another I cornered at the local swimming pool and did the same thing - he was much more in control than the other. he apologized buyt also said that I over reacted, which I had to admit to. I gained a respect for him. Another one I spotted in the crowd at a Karate demonstration we were doing. One of the things we like to demonstrate is taking full contact blows from anyone in the audience who wants to try. That day I took several strikes and kicks to the throat, body and testicles. I went right up to him and invited him to give me his best shot. No body in the crowd could hear me but I was real close to him saying things like C'mon wussy, lets see what you got. Hit me with that little limp wrist of yours. Get out here and do something. . It was funny. The nicest part was it was all settled without violence. To this day I am so glad that I have never taken a human life.
On the flip side - don;t be too sure that you can beat young punks. I too was a young punk as a child. One of my skinny zit faced acquanitances in high school took such a confident older man when he was 17, made him crawl around like a dog at gun point then shot him. That poor car salesman left behind a wife and child.
As well I remember a smaller friend of mine completely cold cocking a much larger armed security officer in a park in Chicago once. He was small, but extremely fast....it was literally one punch and it was over.
Lastly a pro-wrestler friend of mine had such a problem. According to the police record he was trying to just get by the youths taunting him when he mysteriously lost his balance and fell on one of them with both his knees (ooopppps) and broke his ribs.


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 1999 5:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 20
Location: Avondale Az USA
Thinking in retrospect another post may have been better - I am reminded of a Karate Instructors admonition that the best self defense is politeness. A lesson I am reminded I need to learn.
As well I think of the admonition to turn the other cheek - that not taking offense at small offenses such as being slapped ( a paltry attack at best) is wise.
Punks may grow up to be contributing member of society, perhaps sparing them is wise. Whereas another beating may make them more hardened. As lao Tze said (to paraphrase) The best general is not boastful, the best leader is not cruel
As late as it may be for me, roughness is not the answer of the greats..but of the base


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 1999 7:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 343
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bob wrote:

>One of the things we like to demonstrate is taking full contact blows from anyone in the audience who wants to try. That day I took several strikes and kicks to the throat, body and testicles.

Um, Bob remind me never to body conditioning with you. I enjoy hard hits as much as the next uechi guy but I draw the line at groin shots. What the hell do you have under your gi pants, brass? :-)

Mike


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 1999 10:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Bob,

The "demonstration" approach can work. Way back, in another job, in another community center, I was having some problems with the local tough teens disrespecting staff and picking on the weaker kids. After some thoughts (and some confrontations), I decided to rechannel their energy by offering a martial arts class. With the help of Jay Salhanick, Joe Pepicelli and some of Jay's students, we kicked off with a demonstration in the auditorium. We did kata, conditioning, bunkai, board breaking and prearranged kumite. The audience was lukewarm. For the finale, we did some sparring. I had hard, knockdown type of match with Joe P. The kids woke up. Afterwards, some of the kids were looking at me from a different perspective. I wasn't just the guy in the office, the one they call to suspend some one when there was a problem. A little more respect. Unfortunately, no takers for the class either.

Several years ago, In my present job, we were having problems with groups of teens fighting in and around the facility. The fights were escalating from bare hands to sticks and pipes. The progression would be knives and guns which I knew some carried or had access to. I found out some of the kids involved were the young'ums pledging into a local club. I know some of the older members of that club and some of these guys train. So, I asked to be invited to train with the older guys at the club. The young'ums tended to sit around and watch. Did some heavy sparring and some weapons work with sticks and knives up there. I knew the kids were watching. I also told the older guys to tell the kids to stay out of trouble in my facility. The fact that the kids then knew I was not just someone in the office and that they were not sanctioned or backed up by the older guys helped decrease problems with these kids. In fact, the kids have rarely been on my site and have not gotten into any fights in or around it for a couple of years now.

The demonstration route worked. But, it could just easily backfired if one pushes it with kids or mishandles something. I always treat them with firmness but also respect. They know what I am capable of (I am sure they got some stories) and may just assume ambush me instead of taking it head on if we were to get into something. The stakes could be a lot higher...

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited 07-12-99).]


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 Post subject: to young to fight?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 1999 3:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 19, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 55
Location: Portsmouth,NH,US
Good topic. I'll surface from lurking mode to comment. Like David, I work with these guys a fair amount. One thing I notice is the fascinating ability they have to flip from "adversary" to "interviewer." With a bit of luck or guile one can have them asking questions or offering advice! Not the hard-cores, I suppose, but a lot of would-be tough guys enjoy the attention of men. Okay, if they shove their skateboard under my car, forget about it. But plenty of them will shove the skateboard, or pedal their bikes, in front of my car -- to show off. I have a younger one of those guys (a record holder for the earliest suspension from school) as a house guest once in a while. Now even my 10-year-old daughter can call him for trying to take advantage of her in a collector-card trade.

Okay, okay, small town New Hampshire punks aren't the same as ... uh ... Columbine?

As a green(-belted), card-carrying hothead from generations of card-carrying hotheads, I realize I have so much to learn about the "half-soft" aspect of the Uechi art. I hate to think of the dozens of encounters I have had with people I wanted to pound, whom I subsequently cooperated with, or even liked.


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