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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:43 pm 
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Agreed! Continue and enjoy ! Great exchange!

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Van Canna


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 1999 6:27 pm 
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Location: Parsippany, NJ 07054
1 Just a note on using steel-tipped safety shoes, having at one time worn at least a pair or two in my work career.

1.1 Might save someone some pain.

1.2 As has been stressed in these threads, try them out on something like a heavy bag before you have to - hopefully never -- use them.

2 Even with a Uechi pointed-toe kick, a broken-in, stylish "Oxford" style that I wore at one time had a nasty characteristic of folding over back onto the top of the foot like a hinged cookie cutter … … …unless very strong downward force was applied toward the sole with the toes.

2.1 It's just the steel toe-cage bending the way the shoe does when one walks, except with over-travel.

2.2 The part of the steel cage furthest from the toe becomes the blade of the cookie-cutter, with the top of your foot as the cookie.

3 The technique that works for me is like any good Uechi pointed-toe kick: toes together and tensed, "shovel" kick in, but also push downward strongly with the toes.

3.1 This technique also applies to regular shoes, where the sole can sometimes be stiffened sufficiently to take hard impact by pushing toward the soles with the toes.

3.2 I sometimes think the Uechi pointed-toe kick was crafted for folks who usually wear shoes.

3.3 But then I recall my Chinese style shoes have cloth or soft plastic soles.

3.4 Also that some more diligent practitioners have conditioned their bare toes.

3.5 Was this topic covered in an older thread?

4 It's still just so much theory, since I thankfully have not had to use this in a real confrontation.

4.1 And no telling whether my years of practice and drill will hold up under the chemical cocktail.



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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 1999 9:58 pm 
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Chi Hater!!!! Image


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 1999 10:00 pm 
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Posts: 1089
J.D.

To follow up on your Major story. The amount of punishment the body can endure is really amazing. I think the limits (other than really objective stuff like no O2 or H20) must be highly mediated by mindset.

Survivors of P.O.W. camps such as Victor Frankl tell us that if there is meaning in an experience one can endure almost any insult. It's not the experience but the meaning of the experience that often determines things like pain threshold or the end of the fight.

We talk a lot about the lethality of various techniques such as striking the throat. Right before I left Florida in '94, I trained with a USA Goju Sensei. I hit him in the throat so hard that he was knocked off his feet. He got up as though nothing had happened. I guess he hadn't read the right books.

Where did you put the incense?

Oh, incidently, have we discussed self-defense using incense? You can always throw a lit stick in your assailants face. Same with Chai or any fine herbal tea.

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent." Sun Tzu

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Good training,
David


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 1999 11:12 pm 
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David Sensei:

Excellant post. It's all about intent isn't it? What is your intent and how willing are you to drudge ahead, through thick or thin, to see your journey through? So long as his or her body will allow, a human WILL win a fight if they want to bad enough.

What is pain but a tool used by your enemy to draw your focus away from your intentions? I have nearly keeled over from the pain of a paper cut, and I have walked away laughing after a bone crushing spill into a Class 5 rapids. Where was my focuss? What was my intent? What was it that made the Goju Sensei stand up after the strike to the throat?

By appreciating the meaning of an experience, we are further anchored to our intent. In a fight there are many things that occur to draw our minds. There are also many things that we can do to keep focus on our intent. How do we train to this end? Perhaps a topic for your forum.

-Collin


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 1999 5:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 210
Location: Vincennes, In, usa
Oh, Hey-This is great!

Van SensEi-Thanks for opening up part two of this thread, we are havingfun now!:-)

DR.X-As always, entertaining and thought-provoking rant, for sure!

Gotta say-if I had the belief that one style was supreme, I'd be a multiple personality because I do about six or seven, over the years.:-)'Shorin-no, Shoto-no, Okinawan Kenpo-No, T'ai Chi-no, Dammit Judo-No, Aiki whatsis-no, Kuontao-no,Tae Kwon Leap-no, -One Of These, is the supreme Martial Art.Just gimme some time, an' I'll figure out which one.Sure, I will.Yeah, I will, alright.The Hell I will!:-)

Your story about Rabesa Sensei and Stop THIS reminds me of my standard answer for idiots coming up and saying, for years-hasn't happened for some time-'I don't belive in that Karate stuff.'In a challenging manner.

I would smile, and say, well, I'm two hundred and never mind pounds-would you believe if I punched you in the nose, that it would hurt?'

'Well, Yeah.!'

That's Karate, I'd say.What part of getting punched do you not believe in?

Turns out they were believers-they just didn't know it.Instant converion without having to make one move.

My Shorin Ryu teacher was five feet two inches tall, one hundred fifty five pounds, a weight lifter and the fastest karate man I ever saw.He worked as a bouncer in a very tough town and I used to help out .His answer to idiocy was a penetrating glare, and the question'Do you know what Karate is?' followed by the statement:'Karate is a hard fist and a lot of nerve.'

Never had to throw a punch after that statement, when I saw him use it.'Course, this guy had had so many incidents that no one wanted to be the next one.:-)

He'd use psychology and humor to defuse a situation.Once when a gang leader was about to jump on me(bad part was the whole gang was there in the room behind him,I was measuring him but there were twenty-two more-I counted them:-),my teacher comes down the stairs and comments,' Boy, John, you are really getting good -those hands of yours are just like Buzz Saws-tear a man right up!':-)-<-{<:

Gang leader swallowed-he was two and a half feet away from me and his hands had been starting up-and sat down, making no further move.

Timing is everything.Something here to remember, as well, in the use of words, humor, and sudden distraction to stop a situation just before it goes tactical.

I laugh to this day as I think about that night-he made it sound so good I almost believed it, myself!:-)

John


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 1999 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 210
Location: Vincennes, In, usa
Okay-Time Now to Reveal-

Tah Dum! The Secret Scrolls of Self Defense.(tm)

Scroll One:Awareness counts.Stay alert and you won't get hurt.And if you do, you'll know how it happened.

Scroll two.In a fight you strive to beat the opponent.In self defense your object is to survive.If you survive, you win.If you scare the attacker and make him run away, you win.If you run away, you win.Learn the differene between self-defense and a fight, and between a fight and a contest match.

Scroll three.Your attacker(s) are predators.Predators look for prey.Don't exhibit prey behavior.If you aren't a wolf, at least be a sheepdog, not a sheep.

Scroll four.Attitude counts far more than technique.Ounce of heart is worth a pound of waza.

Scroll Six.If you don't practice realistically, you won't react realisticaly.

Scroll Seven.Control your breathing.When the cocktail kicks in, exhale sharply but not completely-then breathe naturally.

Scroll Eight.Old saying from China:'Hit him first, hit him fast, hit him hard and don't be last.'Well, it should have been an old saying from China.The first 'hit can be to the incoming arm or leg.Limbs have nerves, you know.

Scroll nine.Intercept, evade, contact and unbalance simultaneously, apply.If you turn the wrist over and lock the arm or shoulder out, push the opponent up and away.That way if he has something in his other hand, it will fly away from and not into you.

Scroll Ten.Grab something and use it.Why be an empty hand hero if yo don't have to?The environment is full of objects, including those you wear and carry around with you.reach out and touch someone-even a telephone can be a weapon.

Scroll Eleven.Every time you move, you hit 'em.Every time you hit 'em you hurt 'em.Practice with this in mind.

Scroll twelve.Why hit once when you can hit twenty times?

Scroll Thirteen.Yell at them when you're countering-it will confuse them.Say anything.Doesn't matter.Just don't mention their relatives.

Scroll Fourteen.Take one kata and specialize in it, work it three times a day, every day, and make it real.

Scroll Fifteen.Take two other kata as backups and work them too.Sound familiar?

Scroll Sixteen.
Take one technique and master it,This is your tokui waza(favorite technique.) work it all possible ways into all possible surfaces(without damaging yourself) and against all possible attacks.When you've done it ten thousand times, you'll really have it oly if you try to improve it each time you do it.

Scroll Seventeen:Take two other techniques and make them your backups, workthem also.Recommended is two hand techniques and one simple and effective kick, or three hand techniques.

Scroll Eighteen Imageon't get fancy.Fancy will get you killed .Simple can save you.

Scroll Nineteen.Get your hands up.Both of them, and a leg if necessary.Get them in the way of incoming attack.Inercept and hurt them.

Scroll Twenty:Get out of the way.Nineteen is for when you can't do twenty.Twenty is best.

Scroll Twenty-one.Keep one point(stay balanced.See scroll seven.Learn to control your breathing.Exhale.

Scroll Twenty two.Don't be stiff and rigid, or you will be.

Scroll Twenty-three.Speed is life.Works for a fighter pilot and it'll work for you.

Scroll Twenty-Four.Don't ever underestimate anyone.Graveyards are full of those who did.

Secret Scrolls of self-defense copyright Two Thousand by STAYALIVE-the Ultimate Martial Art.:-)

Have Fun!And keep on posting stuff, everyone!
John


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 1999 12:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1089
Collin,

Why don't you move to Roseburg?

John,

You just blew it. Giving an entire book away on the internet...shame on you.
On the serious side, I have a pretty extensive MA library. The scrolls pretty much say it all. And, in fact, I would say--all that is worth talking about. There's plenty garbage out there!!!

Van,

Once again, bless you for making this forum available.




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Good training,
David


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 1999 7:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 210
Location: Vincennes, In, usa
Alfred-San-
Thank you belatedly for the tips on use of steel toe shoes.I am sure Shelly was listening as well.Good points, all.

David Elkins Sensei-Thank you for the compliment on the 'Scrolls'-yes, that is about what I learned about it since 1964, when as a young person I started this journey.Wish someone had revealed the scrolls to me back then-would have saved me a ton of trouble and much research.

Every now and then, I like yto post something like that.

Van Sensei, in another forum, posts on Dan Kumite takedowns a tremendous wealth of realistic knowledge and experience-I couldn't agree more, especially on the point of take the guy down from first contact.Control the oppnent with yor first touch and he will never control you.Pull him down, push him up and away, spin him, make him fly, cry or flop, but make him do that which he does not wish to do.Make him one with the earth, one with the sidewalk, one with the wall, one with his environment-and make him so, quickly!

So for the lotus-eaters, become one with the Universe-and if you mess with the wrong guy, you will!:-)

John


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 1999 4:37 pm 
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Posts: 123
David Sensei, how could I ever leave the sun and surf of California? Well...ok, the drought and dirt of Sacramento Image

-Collin


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 1999 4:43 pm 
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Posts: 619
John,

The scrolls are excellent ... what a great idea to put on paper your accumulated knowledge. A subtitle for this could be "Everything My Sensei Told Me and Promptly Forgot ... a Primer".

May I copy for my students? What is your last name so I can give you credit? Thanks again!


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In Beauty,

Jackie


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 1999 7:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 210
Location: Vincennes, In, usa
Jackie Sensei-
Yes, you may certainly copy the Secret Scrolls of Self Defense(Heiho Kadensho no Goshinjutsu, copyright 1999 by me:-)

John Versteeg is my name.Thank you for attributing.Anyone wishing to download and use may do so.

Anyone found saying this is from the Shaolin Temple will be exposed as a fraud by anyone from this forum.:-)

Watch someone do this:-).They'll go around giving seminars on the Secret Scrolls, and say they were one of only twelve men in the world to have been shown these scrolls, so you'd best pay up some big cash, right now, to the great grandmastersenseigodperson who is going to condescend to reveal what was Once Secret.

So what you do, is when you use these, and you all can,by my permission, is tell where you got them.Then frauds can not occur.

In Budo,
John Versteeg.


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 1999 12:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2431
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Hello J.D., David, Collin, David, John:

Nice scrolls.

JD:

It actually helps if your toes are numb BEFORE when you start your heavy bag practice. Eating a lotus might help.

And, you quite right, I have never felt any "Chi", but when it's not there--something is missed.

Donut Hole?

Oh Well.

Kicking with the ball of your foot is fine, especially if you want your Dojo mate to survive, if not--.

JT



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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 1999 9:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 210
Location: Vincennes, In, usa
Thurston Sensei-glad you like the scrolls.Everone feel free to use 'em in teaching if they want-that's what they are there for!:-)

John


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 Post subject: REAL STUFF ~ [PART TWO]
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 1999 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2431
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Genmujin/John San:

Seriously I did like the scrolls.

I was also serious about needling our electronic dojo mate J.D.,but may have missed the mark.

As a serious aside, the "toe Kick" is quite devasting and should be used with a degree of "consideration" on a real Dojo Mate, as one can (it has happened) drive ribs into lungs with this kick in prearranged practice where the attacker is "allowing" himself to be struck.

So, I wasn't totally kidding about that.

Scrolls printed out and Saved.

JT

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