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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 1998 1:39 am 
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From: kevin f
Date: 07 Sep 1998
Time: 17:52:41

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i just finished reading peyton quinn's books(real fighting and bouncer's guide). it was interesting to see that he included in the "toolbox" backfist, shuto chop, elbow strike. he also is not a big fan of kicks especially if they are above the waist.
the avoidance of the strike by "closing the gate" and moving out of the line of attack also seems consistent with uechi ryu. combined with awareness ,pre emptive striking and continous action follow up it appears that uechi has the seeds of a great self defense style. nurturing these seeds will require some hard work,developing the proper mindset and learning to recognize and channel fear(adrenaline). i have been enjoying this forum very much. thank you to all who contribute. kevin


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 1998 1:46 am 
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From: Van
Date: 07 Sep 1998
Time: 19:35:11

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Hi Kevin ,
Glad you read the book ! It cuts through the
Martial arts b @#$ we have been handed down
over the years ! And yet , denial will persist even in the face of those truths , usually in the ‘talkers’ as opposed to the ‘walkers ‘ ! Another book I recommend is ‘ watch my back ‘ by Geoff Thompson …lots of ‘mindset’ ! Recall that when I began this forum many traditionalists were and still are skeptical in many ways , but at least they
are able to spell M-I-N-D-S-E-T !!
You write “it was interesting to see that he
included in the "toolbox" backfist, shuto chop,elbow strike. he also is not a big fan of kicks especially if they are above the waist. “ Those are the ‘touch stones ‘ of Uechi , and I would not ever recommend closed hand fist strikes other than backfist ! Hard to program , though , as the fist is the primal weapon , albeit , a fragile one ! [ you will get an argument on this , bet on it ]! Rabesa’s front kicks are the best in the business under stress as they are ‘low flyers under radar ‘ and take advantage of natural walking forward motion ! In addition to that style kick , I have used with great success- in real fights - the low ‘skimming’ roundhouse kick which starts as a front
step forward and then hooks to the floating rib ! Other than those , kicking can be pretty tricky when you are confronting a real charging opponent! The high fancy kicks will sometime work in tournaments , but they are quickly discarded by full contact fighters as they open you up and tire you down !

You wrote “combined with awareness ,pre- emptive striking and continuos action follow up it appears that Uechi has the seeds of a great self defense style.” This is the heart of what Rabesa and I have been preaching for years i.e. , use blocks offensively to set up the next blows !…. DOES NOT SINK IN ….consider the following from Thompson’s book
….he squared off with an opponent wielding a
champagne bottle in his left hand .…words led to action ….the opponent makes an imperceptible move drawing his foot to the rear signaling the wind up for the bottle swing , Thompson hits him with a right cross just as he reads the move in his eyes , and knocks him out ! That’s what one of the
basic mindset components that wins the fight , the rest is all dreams !

You wrote “nurturing these seeds will require some hard work ,developing the proper mindset and learning to recognize and channel fear(adrenaline).
“You are correct …this is very difficult ….people are in constant denial ….they simply will not accept themselves for what they are ; they embrace chimeras in folly and self destruction , and when push comes finally to shove , they look for a rat hole … “ Very few people carry the moral fiber necessary for pugilism “ [ Thompson‘ Mindsetting for combat is an ongoing subconscious process that continues for life once having stepped on it’s foundations! Problem is , we should
recognize that as practitioners of martial arts we have an obligation to ourselves and to our students to carry our studies far on the dynamics of confrontations , but we don’t , and as we hide behind the wall of poorly understood traditional concepts , we find ourselves as ‘ mostly paper tigers standing on sugar pedestals “ [ Geoff Thompson ] !
Thank you for your participation to the forum !
Regards ,
Van


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 1998 1:51 am 
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From: Jason Bernard
Date: 08 Sep 1998
Time: 13:09:57
Remote Name: 198.155.235.5
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Osu!
>Those are the ‘touch stones ‘ of Uechi , and I would not ever recommend >closed hand fist
strikes other than backfist ! Hard to program , though , as >the fist is the primal weapon , albeit, a fragile one ! [ you will get an argument >on this , bet on it ]!
The closed fist is strong and weak. It delivers good power but tends to absorb a lot in return!

The result is that your hand is sore (or even broken) and your opponent may also be injured.

This isn't to say that you will hurt your hand every single time you strike with your fist, but definitely true that you risk unnecessary injury by doing so.

To be fair, the open hand lends itself to problems of its own. if you do a shuto (chop) without keeping your fingers tightly closed it will hurt. If you do a shotei (palm heel) without getting those fingers out of the way it hurts ... worse yet if you really miss and hit along the fingers you could break some. Etc. The difference is that the problems with opened handed technique can be overcome through diligent practice. The problem with the closed fist has nothing to do with the
technique of the closed fist punch it has to do with the fact that it is a closed fist.
>Rabesa’s front kicks are the best in the business under >stress as they are ‘low flyers under radar ‘ and take advantage of natural >walking forward motion ! In addition to that style kick , I have used with >great success- in real fights - the low ‘skimming’ roundhouse kick which starts >as a front step forward and then hooks to the floating rib ! Other than those , >kicking can be pretty tricky when you are confronting a real charging >opponent !

And lets not forget the sidekick to knee or hamstring. Round kick to the knee. Front kick to the groin. Front kick to the knee (risky). Inverted side kick to the knee (good close in). Round knee strike to the knee. Front knee strike to the groin. Etc. It amazes me that the legs are so vulnerable (i.e. very debilitating when struck HARD) and difficult to defend and yet people insist on trying to strike to the face and body (well, body isn't too bad). Again, to be balanced,learning to kick to the face is a great exercise in strengthing the body and getting flexible. But remember it is an exercise.

By the way, that front kick to the round kick is a beauty! I love that kick.
Osu! Jason


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 1998 1:54 am 
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From: Van
Date: 08 Sep 1998
Time: 22:13:05

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Jason san ,
Right on ! Wild swings [ and they will be under stress] with the fist contacting the top of the head of the opponent , will surely break the hand and /or sprain –break the wrist in spite of hard makiwara training …the dynamics of real fighting are so totally different that they defy imagination !
‘a shuto (chop) without keeping your fingers tightly closed it will hurt.’ True >> that is why it is best to train to impact at the wrist bone juncture ! (palm heel) without getting those fingers out of the way it hurts ... worse yet if you really miss and hit along the fingers you could break some. ‘
True .. however , the fingers get out of the way nicely when tucked and curled in ‘wauke’ block mode …and that’s usually the hand configuration when the palm heel strike is fired …quite safe !

The best way to use the fist is to jab , but in ‘vertical’ fist fashion ; the open backhand strike, soft on startup and focused on impact is awesome , and it is one of my preferred techniques along with the snapping wrist blocks / strikes of our system ! One application of this , I call the
‘Uechi slap’ which hits stronger than a right cross ! Maloney sensei performed a spectacular knockout [ the man went down like he had been shot ] against a 260 LB biker coming at him with a knife from a sitting position !

The other kicks you enumerate , Jason , are excellent for close in ; as to the round kicks to the knee and four inches above [ pressure point] the best way to connect is with your well conditioned shin and not the instep at the ankle joint ; the well conditioned shin is a formidable weapon at close range and it is very ‘user friendly ‘
Very nice riposte , Jason , thank you !
Van Canna


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 1998 1:58 am 
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From: Van Canna
Date: 09 Sep 1998
Time: 15:23:28

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“ For a few dollars more ….”
Rabesa san [ kyoshi] , is a physical education teacher and has studied human physiology extensively ! In his book ‘Explosive Karate ‘ he writes that you can generate more power and speed when the hand is not closed in a fist !

He shares the same concerns as you Jason , i.e., injury upon impact . Control over the wrist joint is the key. It must be locked back or down solid when impact is made depending on the strike ! “

The Shuto calls for the wrist to be locked back upon impact , hitting with the extreme lower section of the hand , incorporating the forearm into the blow for more power and security to the wrist joint "!

The ’power mode’ shuto is thrown by rolling the back and the trunk muscles into the strike , the wrist locked back in position , the elbow fires inward with the forearm actually trailing , the hand is the last section of the strike that moves . this sets up a whip-like action with the elbow acting as the power base! When you see this practiced against the heavy bag you’ll wonder where you have been all these years ! And when you see Rabesa pulverize cement blocks with it your knees will start knocking togheter !

Then there is the real beauty of perfecting the Uechi wrist strikes from the power mode at restricted ranges ! It is fired in a tight quick arc to generate the COBRA LIKE SNAP which occurs when the elbow shoots inward as a catapult for the wrist which is locked down with the small fingers heading towards the forearm ! The blow crashes on the underside of the jaw line aided by a fast torque of the trunk ! Again , when you actually see this done against a brick , you will want to go home to mama !

The radial strike is another awesome weapon not easily understood ! As Rabesa explains it , this is because they have not been hit with it yet , He hopes that you never are , the way that he teaches it , that is ! It is best thrown at ‘nose biting’ distance with a ‘sickle – slide action ‘ slicing at the back of your head like a boomerang arcing back home ! The torque in the hips launching
the blow will make any small man hit like Rocky Marciano !

Then we practice the devastating ULNA strike with Rabesa sensei , which was initially
perfected by Maloney sensei ! If there is a ‘ Guillotine ‘ blow , this is it but it requires everything to move in one piece into the impact along side of the neck for the ‘ explosion to occur ‘ ! This is my preferred strike to the back of the neck after I drive the opponent towards the ground in dan kumite!

Later ,
Van Canna


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 1998 2:00 am 
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From: Jason Bernard
Date: 09 Sep 1998
Time: 17:28:21

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Osu Sensei Van Canna!
An excellent post. A very complete analysis.
The point about bricks forces me to say, that I never, ever ever ever ever break concrete with my fist. Why? Because despite popular belief I am not as dumb as I look. I always break concrete with shuto, shotei, etc. I have broken many boards, and many bricks ... but I did manage to break my knuckle once ... and you'll never guess how (*rhetorical*) ... with a closed fist on a SINGLE board! If that doesn't say something about using a closed fist I don't know what does.
Osu! Jason


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