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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 1998 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 61
Location: dartmouth, ns canada
Some years back, I read about that key trick in an article on self defense in some woman's magazine. Because I am often alone late at night, and during the day I often have large bank deposits on my person, it stuck in my mind. I got into the habit of carrying my keys that way all the time soon after I read the article.

I have never used any weapon or anything else as a weapon against anyone, but I have a small fire extinguisher in an accessable place in my car that would probably make a good weapon if I needed one. It's hard and small and you could get a good grip on it. I don't know if I would ever think to use it, I think I would try to use an effective open hand strike to a vulnerable area if I was ever in a threatened situation. And RUN when I could get away.

Natalie

ps-I live in Canada, the only weapons you are allowed to carry here would be the "innocent" ones.


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 1998 12:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Kevin,

Three other items people are likely to have them -- pen/pencil, comb and a belt with a buckle. Some items you may have on you and explainable - flashlight (minimag), screwdriver (you were fixing something and forgot it was in your back pocket), same for a utility knife (the razor type that is encased in metal). An item you can carry without likelihood of being questioned, a short piece of wooden stick around 4-6 inches -- a "yawara" stick, a "pet" rock around 2-3 inches in diameter. Items that're likely to be around on the street -- car antenna, rocks/bricks, garbage can lids (used to be lots of glass bottles.. Now, it's all plastic).

Use your imagination, you'll come up with more.

david


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 1998 5:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 670
Years ago I worked in St. Croix USVI, which is no place to be if you wandered off the tourist paths.

Nearly everyone I worked with had their cars and hotels rooms sacked during their visits. I took to sleeping (yeah right!)with a very sharp pocket knife opened under the pillow.

Anyways, one friend (non-karateka) showed me how he used his car keys to save himself from injury or worse when he was grabbed by an assailant in an undesireable part of town.( I don't know why he was there , I suspect either cheap beer or cheaper women)

He always " innocently" carried his keys with the largest one protruding from between his index and middle finger while keeping the hand in a fist. He took that ready made weapon and quickly jammed it into the guys cheek which broke off the guy's attack immediately so he could get out of there. He knew where he was and to hesitate on the counter attack could have been deadly.

Any other thoughts about other useful handy and legal weapons? (besides guns!!)


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 1998 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Good points all. The lesson we should all learn and be aware of is how to make the environment work for us. When push comes to shove, you may not have the luxury of sufficient time or place to go find your prized weapon with which, of course, you are a deadly master.

Learn to use what is at hand. How many times have you cut yourself on a piece of paper? Smarts, doesn't it? Roll a sheet of paper up and use it like an ice pick. Depending on how many sheets you've rolled, you can cause severe eye, throat and genital damage.

It doesn't take much (usually) to disorient an assailant and give yourself a window of opportunity to inflict retribution and/or escape.

Moe


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 1998 11:59 pm 
Hello All.

Just FYI and to add to the list of innocuous goddies. I used to always hold my keys with a death grip between my thumb and index finger while walking in strange areas to and from the car kmowing exactly where the ignition key was going if ever need be. I also used to carry an old wood dowel, about 5" long in my pocket for the same purpose. I had a lot of confidence in those two items.

Allen


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 1998 1:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Back in '74 I was taking night classes at the U. of Pittsburgh, which is an urban campus surrounded by some very rough neighborhoods. I carried an empty wine bottle ( Boones Farm or Ripple) in a paper bag for defense. Also, I did some rock climbing and would carry a carabiner in my pocket - not unlike brass knuckles. Fortunately, I never needed to use them but I was always ready. Also, I still carry a Louisville Slugger in my car. Mine is a Kirby Puckett wooden model. BTW, Bill Glasheen sensei prefers the metal little league variety. They are great for self defense demos as well.

Rich


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 1998 1:23 am 
Hello Rich.

I'll bet the metal ones make one interesting gong when you gong someone on the noggin'.

Allen


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 1998 2:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 875
Here are a few more a woman might be likely to have on hand:

High heels - in the hand or on an instep - spiked ones are not as in fashion as they used to be but I imagine some of those clunky heels would put a hurting on someone's face...

Handbags or other totes - with an element of surprise, could be a formidable weapon depending what's inside and how heavy.

Hair accessories - I use small sticks to pin my hair up - I have no doubt they would be very effective in an eye or throat.

Even a seemingly innocuous dollar bill can be a weapon as a ninjitsu student showed me once - rolled up tightly it becomes like a small baton suitable for stabbing soft areas.

It seems that most environments should offer some type of adaptable weapon - the key is to be aware of potentialities.

Peace,
Lori


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 1998 12:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 317
as I read this series of posts I am reminded of the discussion that Greg Postal began on my Mind_Body-Spirit Forum... what is the 'down side' to this life of hypervigilance? I am not sure of the answer, but I would sue like to share your ideas. Basically, I think that being able to relax, that is, truly relax, depends upon the capacity to appreciate the feeling of true safety... To be able to do so one must be able to tell real danger from real security. This is easier said than done. And I am not at all sure that the karate dojo is the best place to learn to recognize safety, since virtually all of what we do there is predicated upon assuming all threats are real and all attacks are deadly. I wish we could get Dave Mott online in these discussions, since I suspect his Zen and meditation exercises would serve as a useful and necessary counterpoint to our adrenaline-rushes! What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 1998 1:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Paul,

The "mind" behind the weapon carrier is not a uniform. Nor is it for the non-carrier. There are those who have never fought and are "hypervigilant" and there are those who fought and carry themselves with ease.

I can not say whether I am "hypervigilant" or totally at ease. I try to walk with "awareness". This awareness detects the possible dangers. But it also detects the friendly smile, the good intention of a stranger letting someone pass, the subtle emotion between two lovers...

Yes. I am a believer in meditation and "calming" effect it can have on the mind and the spirit. But I am also a believer in defending when I have to. This is just where I am at right now.

david


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 1998 5:29 am 
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Lori -chan ,

Good post on improvised weapons ! Don't forget credit cards …held half way between outstreched thumb and forefinger , they can inflict some serious slashes to an opponent's face ! This technique was shown with great efficacy in a movie with Burt Reynolds ! But , then again , the most difficult part is to really make yourself do it with ruthless abandon !

Paul and David ,

Good observations ! I would not call it hypervigilance ..as it would border on paranoia ! Were the samurais hypervigilant ? No , I don't think so ! The heightened state I seek is not rooted in hypervigilance ….although that becomes a calm underlying quality of intuition …the so called ' condition yellow' ..much like the relaxed state of mind you find yourself in when you drive … but keenly aware of what's going on around you ! It is that inner calm of knowing ahead of time of your cultivated response action you are capable of undertaking in cold steely determination and not to give up until you are dead ! I know people like that …My beloved uncle was taken prisoner and put in a concentration camp by the nazis , but he made a daring escape and survived because he refused to dissolve into his fears and mindlessness ! Listening to him recant his escape over and over as a child , I began to forge the very concepts I try to put forth in this forum ! Inspiration is the most powerful of weapons of the mind !

Peace ,

Van


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 1998 12:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 317
Van and David, Presumably,those threats that were sensed and reacted to, by your uncle and others you have described, were quite real and life threatening. I have no problem at all with those who can perceive the real nature of a threat... that is the ideal state of mind. But, presumably, we also want to be able to perceive when there is no threat, or no serious or credible threat, so that we can be truly at ease...which is also an important part of life. So how do we learn to tell the difference? As I have said, I suspect it is not in the dojo, where all 'threats' are construed as 'real' for the purposes of practice, and yet, paradoxically, they are also recognized to be "playacting" . Otherwise, how could we keep coming back to practice? If all the dojo exercises were real fights most of us would have quit after a class or two, or would never have started in the first place. What parent would send their kid to a karate dojo to engage in real fights day after day? Aristotle once defined catharsis as "strong emotion recollected in a setting of tranquility"... he was referring to the therapeutic power of watching a play. The audience can identify with the characters powerful emotions and actions while also knowing at the same time that they are safe themselves, and also knowing that the actors are "play acting" (despite all of our modern special effects, we know the actors are not really being killed. Compare that with real news footage of a violent crime or a war scene, which can be very difficult to watch becausae you know it is quite real.)In the dojo we know our partners are not really trying to kill us. We know they would control their contact. Even if we get hurt, we know it is unintentional (i.e., not maliciously intended). So, in the dojo we have the srtange paradoxical situation of pretending all threats are dire while at the same time knowing they are not... how does this translate to developing an accurate internal organ of perception for real threats, and for real safety? Help me out here, guys.


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 1998 4:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Paul,

I have said it before. I am not convinced that you can learn "it" in the dojo. I think when one goes through a certain amount of conflict (and I don't mean simple fist fights), one's intuition gets more and more finely tuned.

I think one has to paid a "price" for this. Grossman's book, as well as Geoffry Canada's "Fist, Stick, Knives and Guns", covered well the "price" involved. I experienced some symptoms of what I now recognized as "post traumatic stress" from my experiences. I actually stopped doing martial arts for several years because I thought that was the only way to rid the violence I felt permeating aspects of my life (it didn't work). It took me years to get "unwounded". I am not totally there. But, I am not where I used to be either.

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited 10-09-98).]


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 Post subject: weapons at hand
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 1998 10:26 pm 
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Paul et-al ,

"So, in the dojo we
have the strange paradoxical situation of pretending all threats are
dire while at the same time knowing they are not... how does this
translate to developing an accurate internal organ of perception for
real threats, and for real safety?"[ Paul]

Again , let's remember that dojo training and dan ranks in martial arts only marginally prepare us for the real world of self defense ! David has the right answer when he said you cannot learn it in the dojo !

He also has the answer when he tells of intuition ! Personally I don't agree with the concept of 'paying a price' as it relates to the development of mindset as it has been argued on your forum [ Paul Giella] !

I know countless people who are afraid of their own shadow when navigating through life , without having been exposed to any trauma or martial arts mindset training ! Those are the people who really pay the 'highest price' ! The reason is their universal denial of the strong powers of intuition ! In my own business building there are women and men who would prefer to be escorted out in the parking lot when darkness falls ..and we are in a very secure area!

What must be understood and accepted is that our psychic tentacles extend in all directions , whether we like it or not , with the feelers creating ' an alarm system evaluating what is said, heard and seen' ! The 'system' "constantly scans for things, sounds, words, movement , rhythm , looks, a twitch , a cough that appears to be out of place and does not quite fit with the moment or is out of sync" ! This process has 'connective tissue' to our body immune system much working the same way to insure our survival ! Yet most people repress this natural expression of life in the most obdurate manner !

Read the gift of fear …how many of you have really have read it ! I know it is going to set you back twenty bucks ..my oh my ..but some of you are really cheapskates , would you agree? DR De Becker tells you that intuition is always learning , carrying a number of messengers to get your attention according to urgency , BUT it will not waste your time with worry >> thereby removing the ' paranoia' connotation to your question!

De Becker lists the messengers as follows : 1] nagging feelings 2] persistent thoughts 3] dark humor 4] wonder 5] anxiety 6] curiosity 7] hunches 8] gut feelings 9] doubt 10] hesitation 11] suspicion 12] apprehension 13] fear !!

Once you learn to embrace the messengers in comfort , and to listen to them in relaxed awareness….then your perception of being 'at ease' or 'no serious or credible threat' in the offing will be directionally proportional to the signals or lack thereof being transmitted by the 'intuitive system' !

Van Canna


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