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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2000 1:46 pm 
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Van Canna started this post in his forum.
He never fails to bring up real life situations that could possibly happen to any of us. As we know all situations begin verbally.

I started a similar named thread here to see if we can try to come up with a way to solve these "situations" without combat. It may not be possible and action might have to be taken. The action part can be discussed on Van's forum. The de-escalation, if possible, can be discussed here.
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From Van's first post:
Here is something interesting from Steve Harvey of the blade forum:

“I have given this issue a lot of thought. I bet it is a significant issue of readiness for a lot of martial artists. I have met a lot of them over the years, and as a group, the people I've met in dojos have been the nicest, most laid back people you ever want to know. I sure think I am. In myself, I worry that I am too laid back when away from home. I worry that if somebody assaulted me, I might be giving them the benefit of the doubt until it is too late. For example, a guy makes an off-color remark to your wife outside a restaurant. You think, hmmm, maybe he's an axehole, but he doesn't really mean any harm, I'll just ignore him, let it slide, but keep an eye on him. Then he does it again. You think, OK, now I have to say something. You say, hey, that's out of line, knock it off. And then he punches you. You've spent years of your life studying personal combat, and the first and only time in your life when real danger shows up, you weren't ready. You were being a nice guy. Unacceptable.”

And how about this one here from me:

You stop by a semi deserted gas station late at night, you are out of gas. The self-service pumps have one of those long hoses that allow for pumping into cars on either side of the island. The sign says you must pay first.
You walk up to the barricaded window and hand the clerk a twenty-dollar bill. As he activates your pump you walk back to your car and find that another car has pulled up across from you on the other side of the island, two tough looking punks get out and tell you to move away, it’s their gas, the tall one grabs the nozzle and shoves into their car’s gas tank. You object by saying you just paid the attendant twenty bucks. They respond by threatening to beat your brains out.

Situations one and two__ what are you going to do?

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Situation one:

You tried to talk your way out of this situation but the jerk still manages to attack you. So he punches you. If you have blocked the punch you are still ahead of the game. If not...depending on the severity of the attack...what would do to convince this guy that you can STILL resolve this without violence?
Does the fact that he initiated combat make it acceptable to unleash the animal and violently counterattack until he his a bloody pulp writhing on the ground?

I would take the punch as a invitation to retaliate. However, one punch can show me exactly how this individual can fight. If it is a haymaker punch, I would assume that he has had not much martial training. You may still be able to talk your way out of a battle. If it is a well executed punch, and I did not block it completely, then counterattacking is necessary, becasue he may have had some training and wants to see if it will work on you.

We are training to fight and defend against others who also train to fight and defend. We should be able to distinquish whether or not this *%&^$%* is a viable threat.

Would you still try to talk your way out of a fight if you were punched first?
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Situation Two:

A very tough situation to handle by verbal self-defense. You are being robbed. These perps have no regard for authority and nothing you say will make them back off.
In fact the more you say the more you may escalate the situation. They are already breaking the law by trying to steal your gas.

Is there anything you can say that will make them decide that they had better not mess with you?_____________________________________________



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Len Testa


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2000 8:55 pm 
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Location: Randolph Ma USA
Len,

"Would you still try to talk your way out of a fight if you were punched first?"

To late to talk Lenny. The mix is in place and there is no more talking at that point!


"Is there anything you can say that will make them decide that they better not mess with you ?"


Lenny,

There are many things that you can say in a situation that may or may not get that point across. However,once you make such statements, you better be ready to go at it in a split second.

I once "verbally" de-esculated a confrontation in a parking lot after a boxer type aggresively tried to put me dowm with a couple of hooks.

I simply stated while holding a defensive fighting stance that he was making a big mistake and he should drop his hands and walk away. He did !

No contact was ever made between us.
I was disappointed for by then my "adrenal" was up to it's peak with no where to go.




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Gary S.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:45 pm 
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Depending on the severity of the punch, If I.E. a glazing punch that you may have deflected or did not connect hard and caused you no injury, I think you still can try to de-escalate verbally. However I agree that you better be in a defensive stance with condition orange mindset. I would still give the guy the benefit of the doubt if he only threw one punch, did not attack again, and I did not counter it.

I simply stated while holding a defensive fighting stance that he was making a big mistake and he should drop his hands and walk away.

Was that all that you said?

You still tried to verbally de-escalate after an attempted assault. This is the point of this thread; Are we allowed (legally by law) to retaliate if we are are hit by a punch when no more punches are thrown? Should we give every benefit of the doubt, turn the other cheek etc?

I like the fact that you were now in defensive stance! That is what I would have done also. I would, and I assume you would have too, blocked and counterattacked any more attacks if they came.



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Len Testa


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2000 6:34 pm 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Santaniello:

I simply stated while holding a defensive fighting stance that he was making a big mistake and he should drop his hands and walk away. He did !

No contact was ever made between us.
I was disappointed for by then my "adrenal" was up to it's peak with no where to go.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kudos to you, Gary!

You acted with honor, restraint, courage, and legality.

We weren't there; you were. Obviously you made split-second decisions as to the degree of immediate danger you faced on chose to delay retalitaion until absilutely necessary - and in your estimation it was not then necessary.

That is how it would also be looked at by the legal system - and by a jury of people whose closest brush with the realities of self-protection may come from watching Chuck Norris take on and take out an entire bar without a) getting hurt, b)really hurting anyone, c)losing his hat.

Had your situation gotten any worse, and had there been honest and capable witnesses present (yes, I know I have made a number of assumptions there), your position as the one no trying to escalate the fight would have been secure.

student


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