Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:10 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2000 5:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 821
Location: Ptld OR USA
In almost all MA training, there is a progression from technique to tactics to strategy. Because we all talk, we assume we have technique down for VSD and tend to jump to strategy, then doubt its effect.

As I get time, I'd like to present some real basics, VSD kihon. Hopefully others will follow suit and we can all start hammering out an effective system from the ground up.

Here goes: More basic than words are the rate, tone, pitch and volume of the exchange. We know if the threat starts talking faster, louder and his voice goes squeeky, there will be trouble. It's an effect of fear, of adrenaline of excitement. That's a perceptual skill.

As an active skill, if you deliberately lower your pitch, slow down and speak quietly, the threat will tend to follow suit.

That sounds really thin but try it! Just like any drill, you must do it. In your next casual conversation, start talking quickly and raise your voice... then watch the defensive mannerisms in your partner as he or she glances around to see who is watching.

The next time someone appears distraught, angry or just ornery, lower your voice, take a beat before saying anything at all, and watch them decompress to meet you half way.

Try it.

Rory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2000 9:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 391
Rory,

Great idea! You're a good man to start this project.. eventually we can work this into our scenario drills...

------------------
"There ain't no graduation from this kind of education"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2000 12:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 821
Location: Ptld OR USA
Billy-

Exactly. Scenario training needs to give the threat and the good guy the whole range of options... and that means responding like a real bad guy and that means being de-escalated verbally sometimes. And sometimes not. Image.

RTPV. Next kihon...hmmm.

Stance, just like in karate. Everyone has stood in front of a mirror in their fighting stance just to see where the holes are. Now do it in VSD. Look in the mirror and imagine that you are facing someone who might be trouble. Look at yourself and have friends help critique.

Do you look angry? Afraid? Blase? Disinterested? Bored? Are you showing palms or knuckles? (Even though people almost always slap with the palm, they _threaten_ to slap with the back of the hand. Palms look less agressive.)

Sit down. If you were woofing someone (Imagine!) and they sat down and said in a half buzzed voice "Man, that's really deep. I'm going to have to think about that one. Wow. Thanks."
Or (work example, sorry) some inmate comes up waving his arms around, yelling about how he's getting screwed and someone's going to pay... and you lean back and put your feet up on the desk and say, "Say that again, a little slower. Who, exactly is the problem?" If he's woofing for combat, he deflates. Help? Who wanted help?

TV examples are even worse, but Columbo was a master of this- I even copy my pre-fight stance from him: Bladed, strong side forward, hand absently scratching the back of my neck, other hand vaguely in the vicinity of my stomach, eyes not looking really at the threat,talking slowly and asking open-ended questions and really listening. A great defensive stance if he does go off, good evasions and strikes and a body language that doesn't trigger a challenge response.

Try em.

Rory


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2000 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 1051
Location: Brockton, MA, USA
Great analogy. Comparing the TV character Columbo's (the actor Peter Faulk) manerisms of the tone, pitch, rate, volume while interviewing a suspect. In this former TV show, Columbo was without a doubt the master of verbal exchange. He almost always spoke with appologetic questions and he seemed like he always misunderstood the answers that was given, asking for more clarification. All the while he never raised his tone of voice or spoke fast. The only thing Columbo did that I would not do, is to avert his eyes. I would never look at anything other than who I am confronting just in case I was attacked. Of course he was not in that danger himself.

While on the ballfield yesterday (more near fights occur at sporting events by the players than in bar rooms), the centerfielder on the other team attempted to rush into second base and tag out the batter, from my team, who was trying to stretch a bloop single into a double. While the runner slid head first, the fielder dove likewise, and ended up on top of the runner. Of course the runner stood up and began a verbal assault on the fielder. The words were fast and furious and immediately the fielder was defensive and retaliated with like volume. The umpires had to calm them down (good thing we had umpires, and not like real life where there is no one to break these up except LEO's who may not arrive until too late). Then a few innings later I was bumped by a runner from their team while he was rounding third base. In stead of yelling at him, I waited until the next opprtunity to be next to him on the field and ASKED him in a calm voice why he had bumped me from behind when I had given him plenty of room to get to the base. He stated that he had not bumped me and that it must have been his brother who also had a gotee. If I had raised my voice and started heating up my words with him, he would have probably gone on the defensive and I would have been fighting with the wrong guy. By talking before agression was made we figured out who was to blame. Yes the brother did nudge me from behind, but after hearing what I told his brother, he appologized, saying it was unintentional. This situation occured after the first argument and if I was not so calm, while confronting him we could have come to blows. I was very agitated by the fact that these guys were so arrogant on the field, however I practiced good habits by not letting them get me hot under the collar.

VSD is in art in itself. And as we all know, we have to practice any art form to be proficient.

Rory, I like it...let's try to put together some phrases that might help to calm down arguments. We can use this thread or start a new thread.

BTW, What does RTPV mean?



------------------
Len Testa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2000 5:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1070
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RA Miller:


Here goes: More basic than words are the Rate, Tone, Pitch and Volume of the exchange.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I infer that this is what Rory means by RTPV.

student



[This message has been edited by student (edited August 07, 2000).]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2000 12:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 1051
Location: Brockton, MA, USA
DUH

Thanks Student. I should have known that!

------------------
Len Testa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1070
Easy to miss, friend.

God willing that that is the biggest mistake either of us makes this week.... Image

student


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2000 2:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 821
Location: Ptld OR USA
Man, this died in a hurry.

Len, that was an excellent description. Did you notice that when you spoke calmly, the other guys RTPV slowed to match yours? At least moved in that direction?

The previous situation:

"The words were fast and furious and immediately the fielder was defensive and retaliated with like volume."

Matching. Look at the words: 'fast', 'furious' and 'like volume'. Rate, tone and volume. Three out of four in a thumbnail description.

The most lesson from here is that social critters, like humans, have a tendency to match RTPV. This puts the initiative to whoever consciously chooses to control their own delivery.

A list of defusing phrases:
"I'm sorry ..."
I think this is where Susan got in trouble. We all know an insincere, brown-nosing mealy-mouthed "sorry" when we hear it. That won't work. Open and sincere often does. This one has ranged from "I'm sorry I didn't realize I was staring." To "I'm sorry, I thought you said something completely out of line. I must have misheard." To "I'm really sorry, but if you front me off in front of seventy guys, you have to kiss concrete. That's my job. Leave me an out next time, okay?"

Those are more agressive than most citizens will need, but it can work at those extremes.

Rory

PS- Len the trick with the Columbo stare is to use peripheral vision. The direct eye-contact challenge isn't there, but you can see any movement. For what it's worth, reaction time to movement is faster under peripheral vision than under direct vision anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2000 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 177
Location: N.H.
Stumbled upon this board and seems interesting enough. My first post. Palms up, you open yourself to the other, palms down you close yourself off to the other. Raisng the voice people become aware of you, lower the voice makes people come near to listen. Looking in the eyes is another type of art that can do all the above and its something I am still learning. I have said about everything you have and I think you are correct.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 1051
Location: Brockton, MA, USA
crazycat:
Thank you for your contibution and welcome to the Uechiryu.com VSD Forum.

I like to put my hands up and turn my palms toward the confronter. It serves as a universal stop sign and also allows me to defend if any attack is made.

I do not however advocate a complete defensive stance such as the lower part of the body in any martial art stance, while doing so, as this may send the wrong signal and actually initiate a response. I like to keep my feet in a neutral stance with the knees slightly bent. I teach drills where one can defend from this stance.

Rory:

Sorry about not keeping up with the threads lately. I was attending summer camp and took yesterday off from work to continue remodeling my bathroom to keep my wife from locking me out of the house for not being home all weekend Image

You stated Did you notice that when you spoke calmly, the other guys RTPV slowed to match yours? At least moved in that direction?

Absoultely! I thought of what I wanted to say and the tone of how I was going to say it while I was on the bench. I rehearsed the scenario in my mind. When I did confront him in that manner, he replyed with like tone, and volume. I was inquisitive and not threatening with my question.

As for the list of defusing phrases, Appologetic words are some of the best defusers (ala Columbo). When you try to make yourself seem appologetic, the other person's honor is upheld, and they should return a like response.

What other phrases could follow this one?



------------------
Len Testa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2000 6:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 177
Location: N.H.
Posture is necessary, the more you are relaxed the less of a threat you become to the other.

Choosing good words? can always direct them to a similar subject away from what is irritating them. Say nothing! sometimes they may figure out that they were wrong in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2000 6:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 177
Location: N.H.
What's a Guppy? its under my name.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2000 10:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1070
Crazycat:

The Programmer's sense of humor (I believe it is Tony-San's, but I may easily be mistaken - again) has directed the software to register new people as Guppies until they have a minimum number of posts - I'm not sure of the number.

It's not an insult, I assure you. If Kanbun Sensei were to register anew, he would be a Guppy....

Len & Rory:

Apropos of Peter Falk as Columbo and his wonderfully disarming body language and mannerisms, note also his tactical turning of a martial disadvantage into a tactical negotiating advantage - his height.

Which is to say, his lack of height.

Physically, he is not intimidating.

(While the virtues of the Uechi stare may be debated on this and other threads, it falls more under Defense than Defusing, IMHO. My understanding of VSD is just that: Defusing, without necessarily being one down [if possible] but defusing nonetheless from the physical if at all possible.)

Question: Is it more difficult for a physically imposing person to use VSD?

Len:

Your Hands Up! peaceful and non-violent postures parallel Tony Blauer's teachings, as well: role-play, find out what non-violent postures you instinctively use anyway, and work out your tactical movements from those postures. Heck, you're going to assune them anyway; might as well make them work for you....

It looks like Summer Camp 2,000 was a marvelous experience and I'm happy for all of you who had it.

student

[This message has been edited by student (edited August 16, 2000).]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2000 4:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 12
<B>CrazyCat:</B>

I coined the phrase "minnows" a long time ago to designate adult kyu ranks. I dislike bandying about rank. Shodan to about yondan are "Small-fry."

At some point I mentioned that I needed a term for youth-ranks. Lori of the Women's Forum offered "guppies." It sort of stuck. George--Administrator--used it for first-time posters.

Every so often someone gets bent about being a "guppy." Of course, none of us in the martial arts are at all concerned with rank, right? Other posters have refered to themselves as "protoplasm," "pondscum," so I figure guppy should be fine.

--J. "Small-Fry" D.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Basics: RTPV
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 177
Location: N.H.
Lori of the Women's Forum offered "guppies." It sort of stuck. George--Administrator--used it for first-time posters.

Every so often someone gets bent about being a "guppy." Of course, none of us in the martial arts are at all concerned with rank, right? Other posters have refered to themselves as "protoplasm," "pondscum," so I figure guppy should be fine.

Hmmm? Now that I know no, offence taken. Back to the topic. I would say being called a Guppy would be offensive and disrespectful. The most anyone can do for another as far as being verbal, body language, eye contact, etc. is giving them respect. Treating another as a human being not necessaraly the way you want to (joking'ly) be treated. Respect is a simple thing. ":^ ) no offence...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group