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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2000 2:47 pm 
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In the VSD Kihon thread we are compliling a kihon for VSD scenario training against various threats. So far we have discussed what to do if confronted by a mugger. This situation is probably the easiest to prepare for by scenario training because of the motive for the confrontation.

First Part

(DETECT) Recognition of Confrontation

To completely eliminate the threat of being mugged, one must be aware of the many ways that one can be mugged. These are two examples which are not, meant to be all inclusive there may be many more ways.

Surprised from behind...is probably the most common. When walking on a dark street, try not to walk past areas that are dimly lit and have alley ways where muggers can hide.
Bushes and tree lined areas should be avoided also. While walking in parking garages, stay in the center of the road being careful not to walk between parked cars. Always be on the lookout in front and behind you and note the escape routes if someone were to confront you.

The direct approach with a question...Do you have the time? Do you know where such and such is? ETC. This type of approach is hard to recognize because we are caught off guard buy a seemingly non threatening approach. Be very wary of men and especially women who use this method of distraction. Do not let anyone get close enough to you in a sparsly populated area where you may potentially be distracted and another person my sneak up behind you.


If all else fails and you are confronted by a mugger...we have stated that a mugger will probably not be persuaded to be talked out of taking your money, wallet, sneakers, or jacket. We also discussed the possibility that the mugger would be armed, and would probably catch you off guard.

(DEFUSE)

How about saying, "I will give you what you want, but I will not let you hurt me."

Do you think that this statement is a challenge to the mugger? Will he/she/they take what they want and leave you alone?

(DEFEND)

We can not answer these questions. We must be prepared to defend ourselves if they have what they want and still try to inflict harm.

Is this complete or is ther more we should add?
Should we try to teach this scenario in the dojo?


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Len Testa


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2000 5:05 am 
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Location: Newton, MA
Hmmm...sounds a bit confrontational to me (yes, I know...you're in a confrontation..but bear with me).

One of the things Coach Blauer stress when talking about the verbal arsenal (and in general) is feigning fear and using congruous words and body language.

In other words, don't tell the bad guy that you're willing to fight.

Think about it...if you do have to hit this guy, the last person you want to know about it is the guy you're about to hit. So why tell him?

If, instead, you said "Ok..ok (gulp) I'll give you my money...do you promise not to hurt me?", you've now a) got this guy thinking you're not a threat and b) maybe can get away with handing him your money and leave (if such is your desire). Either way...the guy won't know what hit him.

Telling him you'll fight challenges his ego. It may actually Induce violence (i.e. "Oh, you're gonna fight me? What? You some kinda ka-ra-tee gook or somethin'?")

Interesting story, possibly relevant: A number of years ago, my aunt was mugged on the subway in NYC. She had lived in NYC most of her life, and been spared the general urban violence, but statistics finally caught up with her.

She told her attacker: "Please...I have some things in my wallet which are very important to me. They're totally worthless, but I NEED them for my job (she's a college prof...had ID's and such with her). Let me just give you all my money. I'll give you my credit cards too...but please let me keep my wallet"

Guess what? She kept it. Lost the money, but so what? A minor loss in the general scheme of things.

Now...imagine if right after asking that, she had sucker punched the guy...

Should you practice this scenario in the dojo? ABSOLUTELY! However...I wouldn't force someone to use any particular phrase or wording. Let them develop their own verbal arsenal...then it will be there when they need it.

Food for thought.

Jake


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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2000 1:30 pm 
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Jake:
You are 100% correct.

"I'll give you what you want BUT please do not hurt me."

I agree that you should not try to make a challenging statement that might provoke an attack.

What you should be aware of though...If there is an attack you will do everything possible to defend yourself.

By using scenario tarining you can eliminate the Holy **** moment and be prepared to react.

TC Class training with scenario training will allow you to gain a "viscious animal" mindset that will not only help in defense but might even scare the perp off. This is your trump card though and must be used as such.



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Len Testa


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2000 2:33 am 
I emerged from the wrong T station at the wrong time lafter midnight with my girlfriend, and was approached by three thugs who requested my money. Without a hair-trigger's hesitation, I reached into my pocket so fast, grabbed a handful of change -- everything (couple of bucksworth maybe), put it right in the leader's hands, said to him "this is all the money I have," grabbed my girl's wrist, took off and as soon as I dared, told her not to look back nor say anything.


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2000 1:09 pm 
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Location: Brockton, MA, USA
And you are still here today to write about it!

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Len Testa


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2000 4:25 pm 
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It seems like the Best VSD for muggings is
to comply with demands to surrender your money. It matters if you are perceived to be a threat to the mugger. If they think you will challenge them, they will attack. After they have dispersed with you, they wil have your money anyway.

We can replace material things. Money, license, credit cards, etc.

We can not replace life. Why risk getting maimed, or killed for something so trivial as material possesions.

But...I have been learning Karate for 20 years at 60 dollars a month. Plus the uniform expense and seminars and tournament fees. At least $15000.00 I have spent in learning to defend myself. Can I just give my money away and ignor the fact that I have been training myself all these years for NOTHING. I have to see if this training works...I have to resist...

Your training should prepare you for this situation. You need to ask yourself if the risk of getting maimed or killed is worth the amount of property you wish to defend.

So you give up your money and the mugger runs away.

Now you are seething inside. I should have gone into the kiba dachi and buried my elbow into his throat...or I could have executed that perfect spinning back kick on the side of his head that I practiced 1000 times on the heavy bag, I have seen it work on TV.

This will be a natural response. You will be angry. You will doubt yourself. One thing you should be doing is thanking God that you are still alive to be angry.


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Len Testa


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2000 12:43 am 
I think so, Len. Let me go check...

...Yup!


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 4:14 am 
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Lenet al.:

Exactly.

Did not we not enter a dojo to learn to nurture our inner Lotus?

Naaah! "I wanna beat people up RIGHT NOW!"

As a college student I and some friends were mugged. They lost wallets and watches. I lost nothing. I just stared at the guys. Those of you who know me know that I do not usually exude intimidation--maybe it was the caffeine twitch. Anyways, I had a long umbrella WHY DID I NOT brain, stab, decimate them ALL with it?

And get shot.

And get arrested.

I realized they just wanted money and concentrated on the ones who looked scared. If I attacked one of them, they may have ganged up on me while my well intentioned Liberal Arts friends baptised my blood with pee.

RESIST this, folks! How much money do you carry?

Sit, my children! Let me open you a book from Uncle Van's Stories of Moral Fortitude:

There once was a nice man who went off to seek his fortune. He got mugged by a very, very bad Gore supporter [Stop that!--Ed.] Nader supporter. He decimated him with his Whirlwind Kick of Furious [Doom.--Ed.].

But the bad, bad, Green Party Activist's friends hired lawyers. The constables did not believe the young man. . . .

Moral of the story? Do not risk life, limb, and property on mere pride. It *****. Deal with it.

Now I would agree with anyone who feels they are faced with violence. I am not advocating a pacifistic attitude with scum. I am advising a realistic attitude.

Do not let them fornicate you a second time.

--J.D.


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 11:30 pm 
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I recently had someone try to mug me using the direct approach mentioned above...I was leaving an ATM at night on the way to my car, I kept walking and kept the guy engaged in conversation, he didn't actually start the whole give me your wallet thing until I was in my car with the engine started. I guess that was part of what helped me get away.

I called the cops and they actually picked him up, but it wasn't worth pressing charges since he didn't get anything and he never touched me or brandished a weapon. The police said it would be a simple assault charge and he would be free that night anyway. I mainly wanted to get him out of my neighborhood and off the street.


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 1:04 pm 
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Hi Paul
Welcome to the VSD forums and thanks for your contribution.

Using converstaion to keep this guy busy until you reached your car allowing you to get away was very smart of you.

If you had not kept walking to your vehicle and instead had stopped to converse, the situation could have turned out differently.




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Len Testa


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2000 12:38 am 
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Len,
Since I don't wear a watch, carry any cash or credit cards.... well all I really have to offer are my nunchucks under my seat! Out of my car.. well I ran 3 consecutive 6 minute miles last year in a road race. Hope their faster!
If they sneak up from behind and grab me, maybe I'll try my new judo throws.
f.


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2000 5:01 am 
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Yesterday, I read this interesting article in my local paper's police log.

A man reported that he was jumped by three men who demanded his money. After giving them $45, one of them produced a knife and demanded that he give over the rest of his money. When he said that he had no more money, the man with the knife slashed him on the arm and chest and the three men fled the scene.

This man started doing everthing right except for one thing. He assumed that they would not attack him after he had surrendered his money. I do not know if he knew any martial arts but I suppose he did not because the police report did not mention a struggle.

This could happen to any one of us. Even if we give in and surrender the money, there is a chance that the robbers would not believe that was all we had. Watches, jewelry and other valuables are also demanded sometimes.

If someone pulls a knife after you have given your valuables away, I would prepare myself to defend thinking that they want to eliminate me as a possible witness. This is the end of the Verbal Self Defense Stage as I see it and now is the time to react.

Luckily for this man, he was not severly injured or killed.


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Len Testa


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2000 5:44 am 
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A friend of mine was a mugger in Harlem growing up (at this point I feel I have to explain a couple of things as many people I tell this to respond with "What! You are friends with a guy who mugged people?". And I have to say yes he is one of my best friends. He is half white and half black and grew up in an orphanage in Harlem and life was tough. Then he became a special forces sniper - which he loved. He had a lot of bitterness from his Harlem upbringing and wanted to kill people. Being half and half neither side wanted him growing up and life really was tough, and as a result he became tougher then his life just to survive.. After Viet Nam his life changbed. Years ago he adopted some half/half children and has raised them to have everything he did not. he is a mechanic now and is a great dad. Some of you may be offended that he was a mugger at one time, but that was then and this is now. For the last couple of decades his behavior has probably been cleaner then half of our leaders in Washington)

Anyway, this is how he use to mug people. He would walk up behind them and stick a knife in the mans ass cheek just above his rear pocket that contained his wallet. Then he would slash downward and the wallet would drop out. If they turned around, he would slash them across their eyes so they could not ID him. If they did not turn around he did not do anything else. They did not pose any threat to him - they had not seen him and they certainly weren't going to chase him down with a 3 inch deep gash in their gluteals.

The reason I share this is to add another approach to the real life mugging scenarios. Muggers can be quite brutal, but most probably just want your money.

On the brighter side I just got back from seeing the movie MEETING THE PARENTS with Ben Stiller. That is one rip roaring funny movie.


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2000 3:11 pm 
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My feelings are the attitudes and experiences taught during life is what might save your life.

Resistence will break the tree.

Thank you for telling me that real life story Bruise Lee.


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 Post subject: The Mugger
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:52 pm 
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Bruise Lee:
Thanks for sharing your friend's method of mugging with us. I am glad that he has straightened his life out and has become a good person again.
I would assume that 90% of the people who make mugging a career would have lives similar to your friend. Where a person has grown up and how is a key factor in determining if a person is willing to rob another person. You described a chilling example of the method your friend used to rob people of their wallets. It would appear that this method would work very well when he was allowed to sneak up behind. In a crowd this would work better, but then there are many witnesses. If there are no other people around, it is a lack of awareness by the muggee, that will allow the mugger to get into that position.

If while walking on a deserted street, one walks on the side with the street lights and tries to stay away from the alleys and bushes lining the street, the opportunity to sneak up behind is diminished. Also as BL has stated, the mugger tried to use this quick method to avoid confrontation. If the person turned around he would slash at the face area to try to stop the muggee from identifying him.

Every mugger has different methods. This method is probably the easiest way a mugger can get your wallet. Do not let this happen by being aware of any person comming up behind you.


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Len Testa


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