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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2001 2:50 pm 
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Very good discussion here. Every response has merit. On one side, we have a need to practice VSD skills. On the other side is a scenario that no one wants to participate in. A dilemma no doubt.

In any dojo scenario, whether it be self-defense or VSD, there can be no actual recreation of the adrenaline dump that will occur when we are confronted for real. Nevertheless, we still practice anyway. There is no alternative unless you wish to pick a fight every night in a different bar.

When a dojo mate attacks in the dojo and uses a harder than necessary round kick to a leg, why is this regarded as a different philosophy than if he yelled some obscenity my way? When being physical with another karateka we want that person to be their best and pressure us with attacks that are as near real as we can get them. I do not assume that this person is really that aggressive towards me but there is always some thought in the back of your mind that he might enjoy the slight pain that he has inflicted upon his partner.

It would be the same thing with VSD. It is hard to imagine that anybody could say vile things to another person and not mean what they say. To push the right buttons while sparring one works on the areas left defenseless while blocking. To push the right buttons to provoke a fight with words, one will also target the defenseless areas. Using racial or sexist slurs are without a doubt the easiest way to push someone’s buttons.

If I was arguing with someone over a parking space in the supermarket parking lot, I would insult the manners of the person who blatantly disregarded common courtesy by cutting in front of me while I was patiently waiting for the space. I can call him all kinds of names pertaining to the situation such as “you are an ignorant bastard for taking that space while I was waiting for it”, or something like this, “what are you doing cutting in front of me while I was signaling to turn into this space, did you see me here or are your eyes glued on to your head?” Of course, the second phrase is a facetious question designed to intimidate or aggravate him. I would try to push some button that would make him see that I was wronged and by doing so, it would make him seem like an uncaring person. I am looking for an apology here at least. What we are actually trying to get the other person to do is get back in their car and get it out of my space. Will that happen? No way. The other person has the space and you do not. Therefore, you need to punish that person with vulgarities designed to get him to either lose it or apologize for being so ignorant. However, if the other person was of a different race, I could be tempted to use a racial slur to provoke that person into physical retaliation. The racial comment has no merit in the actual confrontation other than to push buttons. By using these racial slurs I would not be diffusing the situation, I would be escalating it, to further punish him for being so rude.

What one says about another cannot hurt that person’s emotion unless there is either some truth to the statement or there is a deep bias associated with the statement. If someone calls me a “wop” or “ginny” because of my Italian decent, It may not provoke me into a fight because I am not offended by that terminology. Others hate those words and will immediately attack you if you used those words.

If I was in a dojo and there were three guys slinging insults my way, I would not get personally offended if the insults were related to the situation. Whenever we are confronted, there is usually an underlying cause for the confrontation. If there is rape or robbery involved then the verbal exchange will be about those topics. If there is parking space involved the verbal exchange should not has sexual or monetary overtones.

The big problem with VSD scenarios is that the people who are enacting the scenario will not stick to the situation. They will use racial and sexist slurs and remarks trying to push ALL the buttons instead of the right buttons. There should not be any words said that would completely stun anybody unless there are known facts about the individual that are allowed to be used in the scenario.

While enacting a scenario if it was known that I had a divorce and it was also known that my wife was cheating on me and that caused the divorce, any implications of a cheating wife or my sexual satisfaction of my wife would be out of bounds. Using known facts while enacting causes animosity among dojo mates while attempting VSD scenarios.

Just as the bunkai is planned (and we adhere to certain rules) so should the VSD scenario, to avoid this type of animosity and still be able to face your dojo mates after the scenario is ended.

Planning these scenarios is time consuming. Content has to be determined and all possible outcomes have to be predicted.

I will attempt to construct some VSD situations for scenarios. If anyone is willing to help, it would be appreciated.


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Len Testa


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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2001 4:56 am 
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A movie which should be seen is " black day or bad day at little rock" with Spencer Tracy and Ernest Borgnine.

You will see some good examples of VSD and of the way it ends with the best karate chops I have seen so far in a movie by Spencer Tracy, at the end..when , under insults, knowing the fight is imminent, he simply stares and waits.


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Van Canna


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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2001 11:54 am 
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With all due respect, Van:

BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK

Spencer Tracy, Ernest Borgnine, Lee Marvin, Earl Holliman, Anne Francis.

It's not only un-armed combat.

It's one-armed combat. Image

It contains some nice jujutsu moves, including the only hiza garuma (knee wheel) throw I ever recall seeing on screen.


student


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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2001 2:37 pm 
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Location: Mount Dora, Florida
I'm a believer in 'role' playing, be it physical techniques or senario encounters that might result in a fight.

Yes, I'm aware that there are situations where words won't help and may actually hurt. But there are signals and warnings which all the "Realist" coaches use to teach their students regarding potentially violent encounters. I consider recognition of these signals and warnings to be part of VSD.

I believe a person must know and practice for the moment of truth. . . The point where you must fight. . . Every action and word you offer prior to this "point" is VSD and, in my opinion, should be practiced.

Dojo training doesn't have to involve the intense name calling and insults used by "model mugging" and other specialty groups. I agree it is best to use outside experts for this training. However, setting up senarios where an individual or group of students are coached to act out a predetermined action, with instructions to:

a. Ask 'victim' for bus money in an aggressive but non-threatening manner. The role-player is told not to start a fight and to walk away, unless the 'victim' starts to fight.

b. Ask 'victim' for money to call home, with the intention to distract the victim and eventually rob him/her.

d. Other actions with prearranged intentions.

The key to the success of the training, is to see how the 'victim's' VSD and self defense skills work, based on the planned outcome of the role-playing group.

I believe people are capable of learning how to react to these situations and eventually become better at recognizing and dealing with them.

I agree that this role playing won't prepare the students for every situation, just as practicing self defense moves won't make the student invincible in battle. But the experiences in both the physical techniques and VSD senario practice is the best combination for the average person.

Good idea to be wearing your HighGear suit during this practice!

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GEM


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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2001 2:42 pm 
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Student,

Thanks for the correction on the movie title.
Great movie wasn't it?

What did you think of the way Spencer Tracy handled vsd and the "glare" without "talk" at the end?



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2001 4:32 pm 
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Truthfully, it's been fully 25 years since last I saw the flick, and my memory of it is a trifle rusty.


I do recall Tracy, stage right, glowering wordlessly for 10 long seconds at a bullying, posturing Borgnine...then exploding into a shuto across Borgnine's Adam's apple that sent Borgnine back across the length of the room, gagging.

Borgnine gets back up, staggers forward, and gets thrown, more than once, before the fight is finished.

If there is a reader who has not seen this film, Tracy is a WW II veteran in the late 40's who lost an arm in the war. He has gone to Black Rock to pay respects to the parents of a Nisei who served with him - but they are gone. Can't be found.

His search for them, and the attempts (like Borgnine's) to discourage him, are the nexus for the plot.

student

(But I don't have specific memories of the VSD upon which to comment.)


[This message has been edited by student (edited February 27, 2001).]


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 Post subject: TC and VSD???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2001 1:29 pm 
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Location: Brockton, MA, USA
Thank you for the excellant ideas Sensei Mattson.

Using the High Gear ™ suit in these drills is a wise decision, providing you have one.

Jake S: If you are reading these threads, I have not forgotten you. I want to still have a seminar involving the high gear suits. Do you have a VSD portion of the curriculum for your seminars? When we decide on a good date that does not conflict with any other events, we can invite other dojo to attend and make it a regular event.


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Len Testa


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