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Do you have a story where you used VSD to de-escallate a confrontation?

Do you have a story where VSD failed?

Share them here on this thread.

I guess that nobody has a VSD story. One that they wish to share anyway.

I would not have thought that this thread would be a flamer, however it has been 15 days and no one has replied.

How about confrontations you have seen on TV?

There are many in the sitcoms such as brother against brother and ex-boyfriend against new boyfriend.

Share some of your favorites.

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Len Testa

This is a whole avenue of VSD worth exploring by parents concerned of high school killings

I remember when I was in grade and high school that there were always much of what the linked article discusses. My children did not seem to go through the fights, taunts, pecking-order-establishment. etc. I went through, only because I think the schools they went to were "sanatized" of this sort of behavior -- and for the mostpart I still believe that is true. But kids will be kids, and there will always be fights, and some parts of the country and some parts of cities seem to have more than their share of this sort of thing.

This isn't VSD for us, rather something to explore with out children. Widen the communication line with them, and teach them VSD, and above all try to find out any difficulties without seeming as if you are prying or spying into their world. The link that caught my eye is the following:


http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/03/08/violence.survey/index.html

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited March 08, 2001).]

There was a letter by a Globe reader in today's papers suggesting that if school teachers, principals and parents, took more of an active part in controlling bullies in the schools, instead of being shrill about gun control, there would be less shootings.

This of course, will never happen, because the parents will continue to be in denial about their own "bullying" children, they will continue to threaten and sue school principals who "dare" discipline their kids,
they will act more obnoxiously than their children in interactions with school personnel, school principals will continue to be intimidated by children and their parents, and the shootings and beatings will go on.

America..what a country.




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Van Canna

Sure, Van. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. Always enough time to blame the easiest to blame rather than to utilize a little introspective viewing as well as learn more about what is going on their kids' lives. As soon as I read what you wrote I saw a big stone tied around those parents' necks representing being pulled "down" by their children and relieving their personal frustrations out onto the school systems rather than getting involved. I wish I had read yesterday's Globe.


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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

The latest: http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/03/08/alarming.incidents/index.html



Hello-o, parent calling teen. Lights on; anyone home?

[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited March 08, 2001).]

Very disturbing indeed.

I seems to go on and on.

The most shocking is the 8 year old threatening a bloodbath with a shotgun

I hope that these younger children are only imitating the others. Copy cat incidents are known be bountiful after the news is spread on the TV. It is frightening to think that an eight year old would come up with the idea on his own.

What can a child say to stop another from shooting them in these situations. The child's mind has already been damaged by the severity of the act.

The idea of being taunted by everyone in school is debilitating and it apears to the child that the whole world is against the child.

VSD at this point is mute. The child only hears the taunts that have been pounding on th brain for years. Nothing anyone can say to defend themselves at this stage will work.

VSD for a taunted child has to be taught and practiced. Teach your children that no matter what any other child is saying is of no importance. Make the child aware of verbal retorts and practice when and how to deliver them.

It is not always the "shooters" who are to blame for this carnage. Sometimes the parents make light of the tauntings that their children are receiving.

Parents must treat this taunting as serious business. It is to the child.



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Len Testa

VSD stories are hard because in most cases, effective VSD means _nothing_ happens. The war story I posted a while ago was one happy exception, so it made an easy story to tell.

Here's another one where I don't know and will never know whether it worked or whether the situation was only imaginary:

Kitchen crew in a medium security facility that due to high population is housing some very serious people. Kitchen crew is 22 inmates supervised by one deputy and 2-4 civillians. They house together and the kitchen has the usual sorts of weapons you would expect in an industrial kitchen that feeds a thousand people.

A couple of inmates refused to work that day. They accepted a disciplinary action that damaged their housing status and threatened their goodtime and worktime credits, keeping them in jail longer.

I was the sergeant assigned to the other end of the building. The first incident I gathered over the radio. Not my area. Then about five of the crew were caught stealing food. Don't get me wrong, the kitchen crew steals all the time- in inmate circles it is one of the perks of the job. But it's rare for them to get caught. Especially a bunch.

Then one gets written up for disobeying a simple order for no reason. When told by a civillian to stack the trays so that they faced in a certain way, he refused. The order was no extra work and in fact was only reminding him to do the job the same way he had always done it... but he would rather take the move to disciplinary housing with all the losses that entailed rather than do it the way he always did?

I got _very_ concerned. When something really big is planned- riot, hostage taking or escape- it is common for the people not involved to do stupid things to get moved out of the area. This fit the pattern. I had no idea of knowing if I was right, how much time there was or what resources the inmates had. On my side, resources were limited. The Lt. authorized me to pull one deputy. There was one other CERT member on duty, so I chose him.

We spent the rest of the night in the kitchen, talking, joking, asking questions and being seen. We had no way of knowing if it would be enough, if our reputations would make the leaders rethink the plan or if we had just given up two more hostages.

And nothing happened. We'll never know if what we did was vitally important or just me having a sudden attack of imagination.

Rory

Ain't it a fact of life, Rory, that it is better to decide on the side of precaution [I almost wrote "err on the side..."]. Sometimes it is far better to not know what could have happened and be satisfied with your decision than to "Wish" you had done that and be sorry you didn't.

Van started a "Tough guy" post on his forum. Bet you qualify as a tough hombre

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Good Story Rory

The acronym VSD stands for Verbal Self Defense, however it must begin with the mind first.

Thinking before talking is an art in itself.
Sometimes saying nothing at all is the best way.



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Len

Rory's post and Len's response bring up an interesting aspect of VSD. The "vibes" one may or may not be recieving in a given situation. If those little voices in the backs of our minds are heeded, we avoid or diffuse situations whose severity we will never know.

<font color="blue">Heres a good VSD from MetaBaron, originally posted in the Self Defense Realities Forum.</font>

The responses are posted also!


MetaBaron

Posts: 74
Registered: Oct 2000
posted March 16, 2001 12:56 PM
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Hello folks,
Need your opinion on an issue that seems to make its ugly head known more and more these days, which is violence in the work place.
This morning I was involved in an altercation over a trivial matter, and my co-worker, ended our argument with the words, **** with me, and I'll kill you." before storming off.
Nice huh?
Here is my official report, with names omitted. This may also give insight on what starts this kinds of issues:
Please let me know what you think:
At approx, XXXX am, on XXXXX, I arrived at the Data Center to begin my shift. XXXXXXX was at the terminal to the right most side of the Noc monitor desk.
At approx. XXXXXX am, XXXXX logged off the terminal. I then logged onto the terminal he was using with my user name and password of "XXX" and "XXX", which was originally set up by XXXXXXX on this machine, and I have used no other on this machine since. Upon logging on, I observed that my profile setting, programs, and mail and browser setting had all been wiped clean from the settings that I had made, which forces me to spend anywhere from 30-45 minutes to reset them, and redownload all of the programs again.
This was to my knowledge, about the fifth time this has happened on this machine, in the last two weeks.
Upon realizing that all of my hard work was once again gone, I faced the monitor, (XXXX was behind me accross the room talking on the phone) and I exclaimed (facing the screen.) "****ing ****!" I then proceeded to ask XXXXXX in a calm voice, if he had touched my profile or had done something to the machine lat night. XXXX said, **** no, I did not touch your ****ing profile."
I then said, "XXXXX relieved me last night" did you work after her?" XXXXXX then said again, "Hey man! I didn't touch your ****ing profile!" I then said in a calm voice, "Well if you were the only one working on this machine, then you must have done something or something must have happened to the machine. If the my profile was there last night, and now it is gone, then logically something must have changed on the machine."
XXXXXX then began to yell loudly at me, and he was also talking on the the phone to some unknown person. He began to yell "I am so ****ing tired right now, and I don't need this ****ing **** from you!" He yelled further, "Look man, I didn't touch your ****ing profile!" You are always accusing me of touching your ****ing profile!" "You know what, I am so ****ing tired, and I don't need this ****, so you can ****** my mother ****ing dick!"
I then said to XXXXXX in a calm voice, "You know what man, there in no need for you to be talking to me like this."
XXXXXX then yelled back, "**** you! You're always bitching and complaining!" "Dude, you know what? You and your ****ing problems can ****** my mother ****ing dick! I am too tired for this bull****!" I was in shock from his abusing words, and I was fearing for my safety, as his yelling was rapidly increasing in volume.
I then slowly stood up from across the room and I said slowly and calmly. "What did you just say to me?"
XXXXXX then began yelling again, He said "Why don't you go tell your ****ing problems to somebody else, I aint gonna take your ****ing abuse!"
I then slowly sat down, still facing him, and I remained silent.
XXXXXXX continued to yell, " I am so ****ing tired of your ****! If you **** with me, I'll KILL you!!"
I calmly said, (In shock) "you'll kill me...."
He said with a deadly serious face, looked me straight in the eyes and yelled: "That's right, YOU **** WITH ME, AND I'LL KILL YOU!!!!!
I then turned away from him, and calmly said. "I think we should terminate this conversation."
He then continued to yell at me, even as I was attempting to ignore him, he was saying" I'm too ****ing tired for this **** and your bitching, go bitch to someone else! You're always ****ing accusing me, I'm so ****ing tired, I don't wanna hear your ****ing ****!!" "Just ****** my muther****ing dick!"
He then yelled into the phone, "I'm not gonna go back to jail for anyone, it's not worth it! I've already been there!"
He then slammed down the phone and stormed out of the side Noc exit, at approx XXXXX am
I then called XXXX(supervisor) on his cell phone, and left a message.
He then called me back about five minutes later, and I explained what had transpired.
Note: With respect to his claim that I am always accusing him, this was the first time I had ever asked him if he had changed something. Previously, I had thought that perhaps (XXXXX another employee) had changed something on the machine, as some of the changes coincided with his shift., but I have never outright accused anyone of anything other than
previously relayed my suspicions on the matter to XXXX and XXXXX.
At this point I am unsure of what XXXXX intends to do regarding his threat to kill me.
I seriously fear for my life at this time.
I hereby affirm that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge.
-XXXXXXX
-Now, Here's where I think I went wrong.
I should not have said Anything..at all, but just brought my issues to my supervisor.
Also, standing up and saying "What did you just say to me?" was probably perceived as threatening to him, as I am 6'4. and he is 5'6, and he know I do budo.
I use this bluff sometimes to control situations, i.e., this was just postulating and body language.
Now, I am a pretty easy going guy, and the chemical cocktail has since worn off, so I can think rather clearly at this time.
Maybe the guy has had a hard week and I should not press the matter.
Maybe I was bitching too much.
I was thinking about diffusing the issue by offering an apology.
But did he cross the line by threatening to kill me?
This person never exhibited any animosity toward me in the past. The was totally out of left field.
Any thoughts?
Thank you,
Warm Regards,
~Meta


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If you overlook the Way right before your
eyes, how will you know the path beneath
your feet? Advancing has nothing to do with
near and far, yet delusion creates obstacles
high and wide. Students of the mystery, I
humbly urge you, don't waste a moment, night
or day!

- Shih-t'ou (700-790)



[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited March 16, 2001).]

<font color="red">IP: Logged

gmattson

Posts: 1920
Registered: Sep 98
posted March 16, 2001 02:31 PM
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I believe, under the circumstances, you acted quite calmly!
I'm not sure I would have sat down, or turned my back to him, after he threatened you. If anything, I would have tried to get away from him.

Companies should have a policy for dealing with situations like this. Although they may not wish you to call the police, I certainly would have reported it.

Filling out the report will force your company to deal with the person. Now you only have to watch your back until he gets put back in prison. . .

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GEM</font>


IP: Logged

hthom

Posts: 82
Registered: Nov 2000
posted March 16, 2001 03:43 PM
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quote:
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----He then yelled into the phone, "I'm not gonna go back to jail for anyone---


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This guy sounds like a definite nut case to me. He should be back in jail in no time if he keeps it up, hopefully it is not at your loss though.

GEM is right, I would file a police report, not only for the reasons mentioned, I want to have a record of filing such report just in case I might have to knock his head off in defending myself. I would also definitely keep an eye open and stay away from him.

<font color="red">IP: Logged

Allen M.

Posts: 3318
Registered: Mar 99
posted March 16, 2001 04:17 PM
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Don't blow anything like that off. If he has been incarcerated and makes threats I would consider him dangerous. If he flies off the handle and has a gun or knife on his person, and how do you know he doesn't, and has criminal intent in his mind, it could be the end.
If he has never acted with animosity before, and was unreasonable out of the blue, he could be ready to flip-out. Contact the authorities without haste.</font>

<font color="blue"> An excellent real story of VSD by MetaBaron.
I agree with the expert advice that has been given about what to do now that this altercation has happened. It is important to notify the proper authorities whenever the threat of death is made upon you.

MetaBaron handled it well. It was not perfect, but it did the job.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

Amazing how the mind can not come up with this thought under the “chemical cocktail”.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

A case is made for Demanding VSD. Know way of knowing for sure, but MetaBarons size and tone may have started to make the garbage mouth reconsider his attack for now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

Only if you are 100% sure he is innocent of the crime that you accused him of doing. Remember you started the altercation.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

Yes he definitely committed a crime now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

I am still trying to figure out why he allegedly messed with your files. We need more information.

Jcseer ‘s post was interesting.</font>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> by Jcseer
You handled it pretty well. I have a bad habit of going into a fit of laughter when someone threatens me, even in a serious situation. I can't help it, and it'll probably be the death of me some day.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<font color ="blue">What do think the garbage mouth would have done if MetaBaron acted in that type of verbal exchange? </font>


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Len


[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited March 16, 2001).]