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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2002 3:53 pm 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
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What you write is, of course, the essence of the survival mindset, but it needs to be backed up by an effective continuum of training concepts, ranging from situational awareness, verbal, physical and weapons.


Len: We got off to another bad start. I'd like to try another tact. Perhaps if we focus on one quote in Van's forum regarding the "survival mindset", we might be able to position the role of words, situational awareness and body language as a subject worthy of exploration and study.

I had four years experience in running a major sized nightclub/restaurant complex in one of the toughest cities on the east coast. I can honestly say I relied on VSD a lot more than physical violence. I witnessed lots of fights where the combatants reacted to the first "verbal/body-language" mistake made. They reacted to any perceived insult, whether real or imagined, with an animal-like response.

I also witnessed and was part of hundreds of potential fights, that were defused with a smile and a non-threatening attitude.

Some of the recent threads being discussed on the forums are including this "non-fighting" option into the force continuum, which is most important. Given the number of newer students who read these forums, I feel that it is important to stress that fighting is not the only or best solution to a conflict.

We can practice this "non-threatening" attitude while posting on these forums as an excellent form of exposure and understanding of VSD.



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GEM


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2002 7:29 pm 
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Good points Van.

When you and I talk over a beer, we exchange information much differently than we do here. As friends, we can take liberties we should not assume reasonable with strangers or casual acquaintances.

Good friends know one another well enough to forgive (or understand) words and statements that might have more than one interpretation.

Although we treat long-term posters with more tolerance than a new member, even some of our forum pioneers exceeded the limit of the group's patience and found themselves on the outside, looking in. And by far the larger group is former active members who themselves believed they were the subject of a negative statement, comment or whatever and rather than clearing the air, simply disappeared.

Although posting with sensitivity is more difficult than typing a thought and sending it out without re-reading, the effort will not only present your opinion in a way that will be read, but will help with that area of self-defense we are calling "non-threatening attitude" in the real world.



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GEM


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2002 8:47 pm 
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Sensei:

It will take some time for people to learn the basics of technical writing for everyone to post with a Non Threatening Attitude.

I learned to write in a technical writing course. Because of this, I am used to writing in generalities and therefore do not convey emotion. As anyone in these forums can attest; most of my posts talk about the subject material only. I may add how I personally feel about the topic but I try to stay away from insinuations and presumptions about how others feel about the topic. It is not the best way to write to be creative or imaginative but it serves it's purpose and does not offend anyone.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Quote:
Is there an answer, a way for us to improve? Hope so. But the underlying annoyance of having to worry about the world and your friends’ sensibilities when we write can be a daunting, tiresome drain on creativity.

Van is a wonderful writer. It would really be a injustice to make him write technically with no feeling behind his words. It is the very nature of his comments that make people want to read and comment on his topics. If we get too technical in our writing skills, our forums might be considered as "college texbook" stuff to be referenced only when someone wants to report on the history of Uechi-ryu.

I suggest that we try not to be too technical in our writing but some thought about potential offense should be in the writers mind whenever the keys start moving faster than the brain.

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Len


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2002 9:53 pm 
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George asked many times why not more people get involved in these forums. After all we have about three thousand people a day looking us over.

The answer is simple: Fear_

Fear of ridicule, fear of looking foolish with misspelled words and poor grammar, fear of “standing naked” before the world with our personality foibles, fears of “disclosure” of personality make up, and fears of being misunderstood and despised for some nondescript offense carried by our words and attempts at humor.

One thing that helps is for posters to use Microsoft word with the grammar and spell check before posting to minimize readers’ ridicule, and believe me ridiculed you will be if you can’t spell or structure a sentence.

Should not be so, but human nature is unforgiving. Some people are just plain lazy when it comes to this.

I think it takes more courage to become a regular poster than to engage in free style sparring and entering tournaments.

On another thread I wrote:

Your personal writings, and your writing/posting here on this page, should take the form of a creative outlet flowing from your personality. Here, you have a chance to express your inner self, and to create with words and photos/graphics.

That should be the fun part, this self-expression that motivates ongoing involvement. I see much of it on the Italian website.

Yet , if you do, you run the risk of offending people, including your friends.

People spend a lifetime asserting their being, achieving a pinnacle of real or supposed accomplishments, only to have those castles in the air come crashing down by some perceived “cyber attack” to cherished values and emotional self.

I think it best to have an understanding that offense or slight, or innuendo will occur in spite of our best try not to slip down that slippery slope.

One remedy, as Bill Glasheen demonstrated, is for the person who feels offended in some manner, to ask for clarification via email and or a phone call, and if objecting to a certain phrase, photo or whatever, to simply ask that it be removed out of courtesy.

That is a best remedy. But there are others we can discuss.




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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2002 4:33 am 
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Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
George & Van,

You guys have been at this stuff much longer than most have studied their art !

Surely we can all agree that this is a most difficult area. Even i "occassionaly" misrepresent or misinterpret things that are said. (smile) I know, it's hard to believe !

As Van mentions "fear" is a factor that i would have to agree scares many away from posting and or responding. Subject matters at tims can be very vaque and strike personal notes in people.

We all are not literate when it comes to "correct" word usage and sentance structures. My spell check for instance does not respond on the "post" (forums) but does well on e-mails.

I think we might lok at adding in (-----) words or statements that help set our tone or intent. Such as:

1. Nothing personal
2. Just joking
3. Smile
4. Seriously speaking

etc. etc.

Plus the smiley faces and mean faces that some are able to input. Would a little extra time and effort in these areas make a difference ? I think so ?

VSD id tough. We tend to defend ourselves and our beliefs and do get "emotionally highjacked" as previously mentioned.

Appologies and/or private e-mails to such parties in dispute may resolve differenecs without public sparring.

I do not believe that any of us "intentially" challenge others or look to insult. So we can only be more careful in what we say and how we say it. Not 100 % !

Just my two cents worth !


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Gary S.


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2002 5:29 am 
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George,
Great comments. Definitely something to explore and program.

A threatening attitude is something so very subjective because of our individual “emotional receptors” that activate in person by body language and speech inflection, where reason and logic “short circuit” giving way to unbelievable fury.

The same happens here on the forums, while being inundated by the written word. To wit:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Quote:
We can practice this "non-threatening" attitude while posting on these forums as an excellent form of exposure and understanding of VSD.


We all fall prey to it, we feel dissed, we feel threatened by real or imagined slights within the four corners of a post, due to someone’s writing style and or passions about a subject matter that gets mistaken for insult.

The 'dissed' person tosses in his sleep, his heart rate skyrockets, he/she takes it out on the family/kids;violent ideation takes form and sometimes, function in personal confrontations to "settle" the thing out.

Further exacerbating the problem is that most all of us are not accomplished writers and we do post in spontaneous response instead of reflection and restructure before hitting the “send” button.

But to feel slaves to this, sort of destroys the fun of natural give and take, creating anxiety and reservations about getting involved. Harvey and I were discussing just this point the other night.

I think that this is a very difficult situation because of the emotional highjacking potential.

How many times we read the first couple words of a post, then our brain “shuts down” and the rest of the message looks like a garbled mess of words that no longer make sense?

Is there an answer, a way for us to improve? Hope so. But the underlying annoyance of having to worry about the world and your friends’ sensibilities when we write can be a daunting, tiresome drain on creativity.


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Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited May 06, 2002).]


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2002 8:47 am 
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Writing is challenging because the information transmitted is in the content. In face to face encounters, only about 10% of the information comes from the words- the rest is delivered by tone, presentation, body language- All the little intangibles that come to us instinctively from communicating for a lifetime.

Maybe some people are misunderstood partially because they have never trained themselves to be aware of their own verbal tone- all of their face-to-face friends magically understand what they "really meant" and they expect the same magic to clarify things over the keyboard.

Len brings up a good point with technical writing. The other side of the coin is dramatic writing. A good short story author can evoke emotion when necessary, and do it consciously- that's another way to ensure our meaning gets through.

"A gentleman is someone who never insults another...by accident."

Rory


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2002 3:30 pm 
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Good points by Gary and Rory.

Perhaps a good way is to accept that we will stumble now and then, and that this will always remain a learning experience. We are simply too complex emotional creatures, with moods changing daily if not hourly, and it all gets reflected in our expressions, verbal or written.

Gary makes good suggestions about prefacing comments.

Rory is correct that even accidental offense is not in our best interest. However accidents will happen due to their fortuitos nature.

And it is precisely these discussions that will help us in this learning process.

Gary,

You might try writing your posts on microsoft word which has spell, and grammar checks, then copy and paste onto the "your reply" window of the forum. Image



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2002 3:38 am 
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Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
Van,

I use "Web Tv.net" that is a service for internet use via MDN. However, it is very limited in it's abilities when it comes to "computer" usages.

I can not perform half the functions others do and i am also limited in some downloading ability.

It serves my purpose at any rate. Thanks for the points and suggestions.



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Gary S.


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2002 6:22 pm 
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Lee:

Sounds very interesting and very relevant. Please start a new topic.

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GEM


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 Post subject: Non-threatening attitude
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2002 5:45 am 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RA Miller:
Writing is challenging because the information transmitted is in the content. In face to face encounters, only about 10% of the information comes from the words- the rest is delivered by tone, presentation, body language- All the little intangibles that come to us instinctively from communicating for a lifetime.

Maybe some people are misunderstood partially because they have never trained themselves to be aware of their own verbal tone- all of their face-to-face friends magically understand what they "really meant" and they expect the same magic to clarify things over the keyboard.

Len brings up a good point with technical writing. The other side of the coin is dramatic writing. A good short story author can evoke emotion when necessary, and do it consciously- that's another way to ensure our meaning gets through.

"A gentleman is someone who never insults another...by accident."

Rory
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rory-sama,

Great points, especially about how people are often not consciously aware of their non-verbal communications, especially voice tones and body language.

As a professional performer, one of the BIG wake-up calls I ever received was when my promotions manager (now my wife - I am NOT stupid!) said, "you have to work on your posture and stage movement - seriously."

I had been performing professionally for about 20 YEARS when she said that. When I looked at the videotape of the show with an eye on those elements, I was shocked at how sloppy I was on stage!

Even actors, who use their bodies, voices and emotions to communicate, need constant coaching and training.

When someone asked Robert DeNiro what he did when he wasn't acting, his reply was: "studying acting."

There is a whole branch of threapy and communication called NeuroLinguistic Programming which is based on a communications-related description of what occurs when therapy is done by the so-called therapeutic wizards like Fritz Perls, Carl Jung, Milton Erickson and Virginia Satir - people who can effect permanent change in a session or two.

What they found was that these people were doing many of the same things - matching the systems of the person in front of them, pacing their breathing and eye movement, mirroring their verbal style (without mimmicking or mocking them) and more.

Maybe these are areas that might be of use to people in this forum. If so, I will compile a reading list and post it in a few days.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.


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