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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2000 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
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Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Those who have sat through a class/seminar with me know that I stress and probably over emphasize the concept of movement in my teaching. Why? Because I believe that without the proper Taisabaki (body movement), the big and strong assailant will always have the advantage. Proper movement negates that advantage. It's what makes jujitsu the gentle art to a point. The movement is essential in order to manipulate your opponant and in the process, utilize his energy to your benefit.

I guess my thought would be, since I harp on this topic so much, do others practice their movement or do they just say they do? It is easy in kata to practice it, but what about when you randori? I always find that me and my students have a harder time at it when the attack is not planned and spontaneous. How about you?

mike


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2000 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 635
Location: Johnston, RI
Hi Mike,
I don't think you can ever OVER emphasize movement. In my JKD/Kali classes, we practice footwork all of the time. Zoning, angling, laterial and linear motions. We work partner drills constantly and it really pays off.
I have said it 100's of times, the most important thing in ANY martial art is footwork. I have seen superior fighters defeated by lesser opponets because they had superior footwork.
I am always a little disappointed in the inability of many traditional karate students to move. They tend to be good once they are locked down in a stance. But once the feet need to move, yikes!!!
Raf


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2000 9:01 pm 
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Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Let's be honest about moving. There are only eight different directions we can realistically move to. How many do we really use in randori, or jiyu kumite if we are talking about karate? I'll bet you the answer is one maybe two if we are lucky. The object would be to utilize all eight directions. How could anyone lose if they moved fluently in all directions? Pretty Utopian huh?

Anyway, just think what you could do in a fight if you had the confidence to move into or right beside the attacker. You'd be awesome. The Kyhon Waza that I practice teaches me to move in all these directions and shows me the advantages of such movements. It is something I think we all lack and should work to improve as much as possible.

mike


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 5:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1185
Location: Newton, MA
A friend of mine who I used to fence with in the SCA (and who taught me most of my fencing), told me this:

"Fighting is 90% psychology, 5% footwork, and 5% other extraneous bs"

I've found that to be true in every art I've studied since.

Fighting is movement. If you can't move, you become static. Your entire arsenal becomes 'dead'.

In my studies of kung fu, the first and most important thing that is always emphasized is the foot work.

I find that I don't necessarily have a harder time with the footwork when doing freestyle, but the footwork certainly looks different. My steps are shorter, more clipped, and rarely as elaborate as they are in some forms. Simple angluar stepping seems to be the name of the game.

Jake

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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 4:47 pm 
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Location: Newton, MA
One of my favorite movements that I picked up from Aikido was the concept of the Irimi, or 'entering' movement.

This entails just what you're describing...stepping into and behind the opponent as he attacks.

It's awesome, and incredibly effective...it does also require an immense amount of faith/courage to step towards an incoming attacker like that.

In BTS (Blauer Tactical Systems), we are taught to always move towards the danger: At least, that's the tactical ideal. Obviously, this cannot always be achieved, and sometimes you must go back.

When my Sifu began explaining the basic principles of Kuntao to me, he told me the first rule was 'don't ever take a backwards step'.

Sensei Christianio likes to talk about a 'rolling ball' concept...continuous forward motion, with ever building velocity.

There's definitely a theme here.


Jake

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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 9:16 pm 
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Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Jake,

Iriminage is a fabulous technique. We incorporate the technique in Nihon Jujitsu as well; however, the Aikido version is much more flowing and used more often in their kyhon than we do. Working your way in to do the move is the difficult part, but once you do, it's goodnight Irene to the attacker.

mike


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2000 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
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Location: Ptld OR USA
Not just irimi nage. You can irimi to the outside, past the attacking arm to a position to the side or behind the opponent (as in irimi nage) or you can irimi to the inside, between his arms.

I've noticed that most senior Jujutsu students have a tendancy to flinch towards trouble- if you scare thaem, they jump at you. (Hmm, I got thrown out of a karate tournament cause of that.) For a trained infighter, closer is safer.

There's also the psychological level. You can measure civilization by how far away you can be and still kill people (teeth-> club -> spear-> bow......->ICBM) and there is a terror to facing anything less civilized then ourselves. Infighters are scarier than kickers. The psychological edge is devestating.

Rory


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2000 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 16
Jake-

To paraphrase Neal Town Stephenson, A serial killer with three feet of cord is a hell of a lot more dangerous than a cheeleader with a bazooka.

Mindset-

Kyle


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2000 2:34 am 
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Joined: Thu May 06, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 288
Location: Randolph Ma USA
Mike,

I can appreciate the value of movement when being attaked. Although, in Uechiryu and some other Karate systems, it appears as though when things get heated up, we tend to exchange blows and take the attacking stand.

There is a point where defence becomes offence and we go in to close the distance looking for a in tight position and opportunity to strike, take down etc.

I had taken Aikido for a few years whereas
we blended with the attacking force and redirected it into a throw or lock. However, there was full body comittment from the uki and they did not "square off" as some of the Uechi practicioners do.

I believe that when one stands their ground as to pick their shots rather than attack, utilizing movement is much more difficult to do.

The old beginner "8 step" movement was about that. Although many dropped it from there training due to it's white belt level material. One can add much to the drill as to work those 8 positions you refer to.

When confronted by a tank like person, as yourself (smile) one surely needs to move "out" of the way !




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Gary S.


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 Post subject: movement
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2000 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
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Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Gary,

I agree with you one the concept of standing still when we tend to get into a conflict. Those of us who started out in a style such as Uechi-ryu have learned that it is the "Uechi" thing to do (I'm talking about us old and semi-old timers). Movement was never in the training scheme or curriculum. You got hurt or injured because you didn't train hard enough. Some truth to that maybe, but we really have to start looking at the fact that maybe someone got hit and hurt was because they didn't move either at all or fast enough.

Let's face it. As we get older, we lose a certain amount of ability that was prevelent in our younger days. How do we make up for that lost vigor or activity? In my book it is better timing, which means better movement.

The old 8 Form that we did in my younger Uechi days (whatever happened to that exercise?)is similar to the Taisabaki (body movement) that we practice in Jujitsu. It's so important that people practice the various directions they can move.

mike


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