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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2001 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 988
Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Let's move on to the next throw. Ostogari.
Probably the most common outside a judo ring(I honestly wouldn't know whether many people throw it in judo or not).

This throw calls for the person doing the throwing to step beside the other person and bring the opposite leg with them. Then, take the leg that is cloest to the opponant and kick out their closest leg while driving them with your arms (your hold on them).

It is important that the off-balancing occurs for this before you try to throw the person. Now, for a little variation. Because I train Jujitsu and not Judo, I teach my students, that once they are behind/side of their student, then there are many techniques you can choose from. One of my favorites is to wait until the off balanceing has occurred and get behind them and do the jujitud version. Instead of kicking up through the legs, I kick "thorugh ther legs.


What do yo think?


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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2001 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 821
Location: Ptld OR USA
First, some fine points for the classic judo style:
Whoever has the base leg closest to the center of the combined gravity has the best leverage.
The line of throw should be directly perpendicular to the line of uke's feet.
Kuzushi is applied in "ship's wheel" fashion, to pin uke's balance on the leg to be swept.
Follow through with the shoulder.

Jujutsu points:
Our Sosui****su kata has O-soto-gari as a combination of two strikes: a Y-strike to the throat (or palm-heel to the chin) combined with a heel kick to the upper insertion of the calf muscle.
Less formally, a thumb gouge to the nerves under the corner of the jaw combined with a thumb to the lateral nerve of the elbow sets up a beautiful kuzushi.
It's a great throw for teaching mechanics. Every throw is composed of a kuzushi, an execution, and a follow though. With O-soto you can easily demonstrate that any part done perfectly is sufficient to get the throw. It sounds weird, probably, but you can get a good throw with just follow through, kuzushi or the technique without the other two.

Rory (Mike, you really know how to get me lecturing. Sorry.)


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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 988
Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Rory,

It's always great to read posts from someone as knowledgable as you. It's a pleasure to get you lecturing.

One thing about the Osotogari that should be mentioned. If the kuzushi is not done properly, the very simple reverse (i.e. an Osotogari) will be performed on you!
(I learned that one through experience)
mike


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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2001 11:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1070
Good observations.

Two points:
1) As the world's second worst judoka (on a planet with 5+billion people on it, probability and logic dictate that somewhere, somehow, there's someone who's worse at this than I Image...but probably only one.... Image), my experience is that your left foot (assuming a right -reaping o-soto gari) must be past uke's left foot or your chances at breaking his kuzushi are considerably diminished.

2) My TKD grandmaster has a very useful variation in our self-defense one-step sparring. You block/redirect the attack and apply the o-soto conventionally, which leaves your right arm going forward - and immediately whip that right arm back in a down block against the kick from the ground that is heading for your blind side! Finish with the technique of your choice....

student


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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2001 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 988
Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Students,

Another variation of this may be as you are stepping in to put your left leg past your opponant, instead of the traditional grab, do a iriminage type of arm (wrap your right arm around his neck and jaw as you do the osotogari).

mike


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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Our Sosui****su kata has O-soto-gari as a combination of two strikes: a Y-strike to the throat (or palm-heel to the chin) combined with a heel kick to the upper insertion of the calf muscle.
Less formally, a thumb gouge to the nerves under the corner of the jaw combined with a thumb to the lateral nerve of the elbow sets up a beautiful kuzushi.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really like this version a lot. Actually, at winterfest, I was working with Tony on dan kumite (still trying learn this darn set Image ) and thought this version was a much better application in the takedown move than the elbow strike, trap opponents front leg/apply pressure to hip... It's just faster for me and the atemi to the neck/jaw can drop the opponent on its own.

david


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 Post subject: nage waza 2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2001 9:38 pm 
David,

I think they are both cool. One neat twist you can do with the technique you showed me is include trapping the foot (by stepping on it) on your way in. As they topple over, transfer your weight to that foot and their ankle will snap. Shooting the leg is alot slower and like mary said, you can get plowed. There are still some advantages to having control of that leg. EG: Instead of throwing the leg with the "Screwey Louie" (what is that block called?), control it with your left hand on their knee and your right hand on their ankle. Step over their other leg with your right leg and jam their shin down on top of that big bone just over your knee (ala opening thrusts in sanchin). Imagine your are breaking a piece of firewood over your knee.

*ouchie*

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony-San (edited January 27, 2001).]


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