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 Post subject: nagewaza 4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2001 5:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 989
Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Ok, it seems as by the response that Ukigoshi is not a fan favorite. Let's look at some of the other throws: Deashibarai, Koushigeri (or gake), Ouchigeri (gake).

In my system, we kind of put these three at the same level. These throws make the person learn how necessary it is to incorporate the hands and feet together in order to make the throw complete. In fact, that is what I find most frustrating as an instructor when student simply complete the sweep or takedown without the use or followup of their hands. These throws, with proper hands, and timing of course, puts the assailant in a terrible position.

Any comments?

mike


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 Post subject: nagewaza 4
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2001 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 821
Location: Ptld OR USA
Actually, Mike, I consider each of the throws you listed to be representative of very different "sub-families" of ashi-waza.

As you've probably figured out, I like putting things in groups. I think it makes it easier to learn, teach and understand if things are related to each other.

So I divide sweeps into two families- pinned sweeps and floating sweeps. Floating sweeps divide into sub families of extension and cross sweeps.

Pinned sweeps (eg O-soto and O-uchi gari) you commit uke's weight to one foot and then remove that foot. If balance is properly broken on O-uchi weight can be committed to both. The most common screw-up for O-uchi is trying to sweep a foot that is in the air or has no weight on it.

Floating sweeps involve moving the foot out of the way in the instant before weight is committed to it. After the center of gravity has shifted toward that side but before it contacts the ground.
There are only two good directions to do this (plus one third option, the stop). You must either sweep the foot across the centerline (de-ashi), or extend it into the front splits (ko-uchi). If you try to extend it to the side splits, you just make the base wider and are trying to work against stronger muscles.

The stop is like sasae tsurikomi ashi- the foot is frozen at the centerline and the CoG is pulled over it.

As for the hands- In o-uchi, either hands or timing can set up the throw but hands are critical to pin the weight down on the foot you are sweeping. Follow through is best with a fully committed shopulder and hip.

In cross sweeps, working hands and feet together for 2-way action is critical on the follow through. Also, you can buy yourself a little more time (and timing is hard on all floating sweeps) by pulling forward slightly on the sleeve/shoulder of the advancing foot.

Lastly, in extension sweeps, a subtle forward pull can really extend your window of opportunity. Done gently enough, uke just feels a need to take an extra long step and his foot never quite reaches the ground. It also helps to be able to fake the feel of a backward step with your shoulder.

Just my little concepts. Is this what you wanted, Mike?

-Rory


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 Post subject: nagewaza 4
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 989
Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Rory,

That's exactly what I'm talking about. You have a way about you my friend to describe these throws and their variations that should be enjoyed by all!!:-)

Your Judo expertise is apparent. I like to add a little more jujitsu to the throws to make them more interesting though. :-)

For example, because of my hand positioning and thus the control factor, I would try to position my unfortunate deashibarai victim in a nice hadaka jime or facsimile. On Kouchigari, I would sutemi (sacrifice)the technique so as to when I went down on the person my knee would be right on the inside thigh's artery. Crushing to say the least. On Ouchigari, I would bring them closer to me on the take down in order to damage the standing knee (their's not mine).

Definately not what the Kodukan ordered, but devastating to say the least.

keep them coming,

mike


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 Post subject: nagewaza 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2001 10:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
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Location: Ptld OR USA
Jujutsu variations!
Honestly, I don't find most of the gliding sweeps lend themselves that well to all-out infighting which is central to our style. A really well timed de-ashi can mess up someone who is closing without any hand contact at all.
O-uchi, though... does your style use the wave-action palm heel against the chin to first extend the neck up, bend it back, then plunge stright down? A good sweep might just save the uke's neck. Or the throat strike up, dead-drop elbow strike to the sternum.
And a knee drop finish is always good.
Rory


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 Post subject: nagewaza 4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2001 5:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
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Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
Rory,

That's where the hand control becomes important. If I have my hands on my opponant and I perform Deashibarai, then they are coming down right in front of me for further fun.

We do use an Age Ato Nage in our Kyhon waza, and would not hesitate to use it in our practice of the sweeps.

mike


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