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 Post subject: The Law Came a Callin
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2001 1:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 155
Location: Maurepas, La., USA
Greetings learned group,

I have recently been approached by the local Sheriff's dept. and asked to train them in grappling.

Now beyond feelings of humility and inadequacy, I really want to help these fine folks out (it never hurts to get to know a few cops, and it's fun to choke a few of them out in the process;-)

To the point: I need advice!

They told me to take into account that they would be having to protect their sidearms, and also have a frame of mind of control (most work in the prison) and not necessarily self-defense. So I will have to make some fundamental shifts in thought and technique.

Any advice is most welcome.

Mal Wagner

 Post subject: The Law Came a Callin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2001 3:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 79
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
My company specializes in police defensive skills and we have a specific course for teaching close quarter ground defense. It is crafted on the premise that officers have unique problems, not the least of which is a loaded firearm which is always present. The 24 hour instructor course offers a complete program centered on the challenges of the police environment. The course - simply clled GROUNDFIGHT! - was presented to ASLET (American Society for Law Enforcement Trainers)and the Florida High Liability Trainers Conference last year. It was very popular and we have recieved many requests for training.

Let me know if I can help.

Roy Bedard

 Post subject: The Law Came a Callin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2001 8:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 818
Location: Ptld OR USA

There are many things to think about. The following is heavily edited from something I wrote elsewhere:

First, be aware that there is a lot more to police DT's than there is to self defence. You have to be intimately familiar with Use of Force justification, relevant case and state law and the department's policies, procedures and Force Continuum. You need to thoroughly understand and integrate all the force options available to the officer (OC, ASP, PR-24, tactical folder, taser, back-up, sidearm and radio). You also should be familiar with all the common restraint devices (handcuffs, flexcuff and hobble).

That sounds like a huge amount of information, but it is the context of the job that makes it so difficult for outsiders to teach.

A small and specific course that centers on your strengths is a good place to start. Get a DT/Use of Force Instructor to go over the material with an eye to the aspects mentioned above. Get a red weapon and a duty belt and practice with respect to weapon retention and modifying techniques (ukemi in duty belts can really ******!) And be aware of things that don't apply (ie breaking a turtle is almost never appropriate.)

End of old information. I would suggest working with one of their present DT instructors, building the curriculum around skills they already posess. Adding a few principles that will help them adapt. Staying very focussed on the tactical needs of the officers (It's not a game, and a lot of the win/lose mindset has to be jettisoned... there are lots of weapons in reach... will the threats friends arrive before backup... etc.)

I've designed a 4hr block for my people. You can reach me at:


if you'd like to see it.


 Post subject: The Law Came a Callin
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2001 6:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 8
Location: MI/US
I am a probation officer and have also worked in a facility, as well as having went through our states Point Presure Control Tacticts (Bullsh&& by the way) If I was to teach some Officers grappling I would teach the following: Takedowns, how to escape chokes, escape the mount, the back. This would give them a few basic techniuqes that work well on untrained people. Also, this is what most officers come into contact with. You can protect against a Choke with one arm and keep the othe ron your sidearm. Most common graplling tech would be to get Perpatraitor on the floor so that they can arrest after, so police need tyo know how to get them on the ground saftley and then control so that they can handcuff. Just my nickle's worth K

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