Here's a question for all of you out there? After being subjected to 2 hours of the most innane and unrealistic "restraint" seminar at my place of work (public school), I got to thinking about the idiot who put this program together. Either the state must be simply oblivious (Mass???? No way!)or this guy/gal is the greatest salesman the world has ever known. I don't know.
But then I got thinking. What if someone actually sold the state a program that works, or at the very least functionable? Might be worth a try. Does anyone know how to go about selling a program to a government agency such as the Education Dept., or the State Police, or whatever? I'd be interested in finding this out, as well as your opinion on the subject.
mike
program?
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program?
by mikemurphy » Wed Dec 12, 2001 12:53 pm
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program?
by Norm Abrahamson » Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:56 pm
Mike,
I'm curious, how do you really feel about the restraint program?
See ya Satruday,
Norm
I'm curious, how do you really feel about the restraint program?
See ya Satruday,
Norm
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program?
by student » Thu Dec 13, 2001 2:47 pm
The venue of this instruction - public schools - inspires these thoughts in me:
What is the purpose of this training?
Why, one would suppose to keep the students and staff safe, right?
Sure. But is it the primary purpose?
Or is the primary purpose inoculating the school board/school system/government from liability?
If the powers-that-be authorize training that is effective, and that training is used to the letter, and those techniques cause injury, whose pocket is reachable then? That of the powers-that-be.
If a scuffle occurs, force is used, and a student is injured, but the techniques used were not those allowed by the powers-that-be, guess who is not liable - and who is?
Mike, I think you are assuming that the powers-that-be are primarily interested in training you in effective restraint techniques...and this assumption may be false to fact.
(Sigh. I suppose I really do think like a lawyer now....
)
student
What is the purpose of this training?
Why, one would suppose to keep the students and staff safe, right?
Sure. But is it the primary purpose?
Or is the primary purpose inoculating the school board/school system/government from liability?
If the powers-that-be authorize training that is effective, and that training is used to the letter, and those techniques cause injury, whose pocket is reachable then? That of the powers-that-be.
If a scuffle occurs, force is used, and a student is injured, but the techniques used were not those allowed by the powers-that-be, guess who is not liable - and who is?
Mike, I think you are assuming that the powers-that-be are primarily interested in training you in effective restraint techniques...and this assumption may be false to fact.
(Sigh. I suppose I really do think like a lawyer now....
)student
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program?
by mikemurphy » Thu Dec 13, 2001 10:32 pm
Lenny,
Next time I see Bethoney sensei, I'll ask him. Thanks.
Norm,
You know how I think :-)
Student,
You are correct. The purpose of the "training" is in reaction to an incident that occured at a school where a child was injured by improper restraint. However, as I have found out, in Mass. all schools are supposed to have a seminar/review of the state's policy EVERY year. I've been teaching now for 8 years and this is the first one I have had. You figure it out. This is solely to cover someone's butt (i.e. school system).
As to the techniques to be used, the problem is not matter what they teach, it will never be what is used? Why? Because every situation is different and every teacher and student is different. The problem is that teachers are in a catch 22 situation. They have to break up the fight or they could be held liable if a student hurts themself and the teacher did nothing. On the other hand, if they hurt the kid while breaking it up, they could be liable too.
This is the reason why teaching some of these people viable techniques would be worth it and not the total crap I had to sit through. I wish I had the time to tell you what they were doing.
mike
Next time I see Bethoney sensei, I'll ask him. Thanks.
Norm,
You know how I think :-)
Student,
You are correct. The purpose of the "training" is in reaction to an incident that occured at a school where a child was injured by improper restraint. However, as I have found out, in Mass. all schools are supposed to have a seminar/review of the state's policy EVERY year. I've been teaching now for 8 years and this is the first one I have had. You figure it out. This is solely to cover someone's butt (i.e. school system).
As to the techniques to be used, the problem is not matter what they teach, it will never be what is used? Why? Because every situation is different and every teacher and student is different. The problem is that teachers are in a catch 22 situation. They have to break up the fight or they could be held liable if a student hurts themself and the teacher did nothing. On the other hand, if they hurt the kid while breaking it up, they could be liable too.
This is the reason why teaching some of these people viable techniques would be worth it and not the total crap I had to sit through. I wish I had the time to tell you what they were doing.
mike
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program?
by david » Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:19 am
Mike,
What's the name of the method and the company doing the training?
There is one that I am interested in. They 're based I think in the Philly or Baltimore area. Cost a lot -- something like $400 - $500 for a one day seminar and several thousand to become a "trainer" for others.
I am interested in checking one out when I have the time (unless it's the same as the one you took!
) My thought is to have some of the key youth staff trained if I think the method works. Heck, I tired of being the "bad guy" all the time.
david
What's the name of the method and the company doing the training?
There is one that I am interested in. They 're based I think in the Philly or Baltimore area. Cost a lot -- something like $400 - $500 for a one day seminar and several thousand to become a "trainer" for others.
I am interested in checking one out when I have the time (unless it's the same as the one you took!
) My thought is to have some of the key youth staff trained if I think the method works. Heck, I tired of being the "bad guy" all the time.david
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program?
by mikemurphy » Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:56 pm
David,
I'll try and find out for you. I don't remember them telling us a name, and to tell you the truth, I was laughing so much, if they did, I didn't hear it.
mike
I'll try and find out for you. I don't remember them telling us a name, and to tell you the truth, I was laughing so much, if they did, I didn't hear it.
mike
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program?
by Rick Wilson » Sat Dec 15, 2001 7:22 am
Mike:
Neil Dunnigan Sensei has successfully taught a non abusive restraint program to many different organizations for years now. I am not familiar with how got into to it, but you might want to contact him:
http://www.dunnigankarate.com/index2.htm
Rick
Neil Dunnigan Sensei has successfully taught a non abusive restraint program to many different organizations for years now. I am not familiar with how got into to it, but you might want to contact him:
http://www.dunnigankarate.com/index2.htm
Rick
- Rick Wilson
program?
by david » Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:12 am
Mike,
This is the group I was talking about. www.handlewithcare.com
Don't want to expend money and time if it turns out to be the same as the group you participated with.
Part of the attraction of this group, if their advertising is true, is that they supposedly have worked with a lot of recognized institutions and agencies. That means you hopefully don't have to justify/defend yourself against charges that you used "dangerous" tactics to subdue an aggressive client. If it gets out that you're untrained or, worse, a (mean/aggressive) martial artist... Boy, the lawyers would have a field day. Heck, they would have one anyway.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited December 15, 2001).]
This is the group I was talking about. www.handlewithcare.com
Don't want to expend money and time if it turns out to be the same as the group you participated with.
Part of the attraction of this group, if their advertising is true, is that they supposedly have worked with a lot of recognized institutions and agencies. That means you hopefully don't have to justify/defend yourself against charges that you used "dangerous" tactics to subdue an aggressive client. If it gets out that you're untrained or, worse, a (mean/aggressive) martial artist... Boy, the lawyers would have a field day. Heck, they would have one anyway.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited December 15, 2001).]
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