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 Post subject: The Blame Game
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:32 pm 
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Posts: 670
It's already started. Before everyone is even safe, their dead loved ones retrived from the deluge, the left is blaming the government for a natural disaster.

RFK jr is blaming the Governor of MS for the hurricane by his opposition to the bogus Kyoto treaty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/afor-they-that-sow-the-_b_6396.html

Quote:
As Hurricane Katrina dismantles Mississippi’s Gulf Coast, it’s worth recalling the central role that Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour played in derailing the Kyoto Protocol and kiboshing President Bush’s iron-clad campaign promise to regulate CO2.


And the New York Slimes has begun with their unwarranted Bush bashing again.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/opinion/31wed1.html

Quote:
As the levees of Lake Pontchartrain gave way, flooding New Orleans, it seemed pretty clear that in this case, government did not live up to the job.

But this seems like the wrong moment to dwell on fault-finding, or even to point out that it took what may become the worst natural disaster in American history to pry President Bush out of his vacation.


Yeah, this is no time to find fault, but hey, we're going to just that right here and now.

I don't have any idea if they blamed Clinton for Andrew in 1992. But, I'm bet they didn't.


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 Post subject: a few points
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:53 pm 
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Posts: 237
A) Both articles were opinion pieces... so I don't think wither paper is bashing anyone, just the opinion writers.

B) I can't find the writer of the NY Times piece pointing the finger at anyone. He did make a dig at GW, but is is, at best, guilt by association ("Hurricane blah blah... disaster blah blah... GW takes too much vacation blah... blah... more hurricane stuff... blah blah...).

If you read the piece you'll see him asking for and hoping that Americans will rally around New Orleans the same way we did around NYC after 9/11. If this is "bleading heart liberalism", then what does the right feel we should do? Tell New Orleans to stop being lazy whiners, get jobs, and help themselves without assistance?

C) Kennedy Jr. is, like most politicians, is an egotistical, self-serving bozo; but is entitled to his own opinion.


cheers,

chewy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:02 pm 
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Posts: 670
Op ed piece in newspapers are not from a "writer". They are the opinions of the editorial staff of the paper. They sit around trying to figure out a way to fit in any little dig about te administration whenever they can.

BTW, JFK jr is not a politician. Nor is he a scientist. So he really has no business making a leap from "Governor opposes Kyoto" to "Governor causes massive death and destruction".

This is just the start. Wait until all the body counts are in before the blame really starts to pile up.

It was an act of God or nature folks. No one's fault. The only people to blame for their present peril or deaths are the ones who didn't heed the warnings to screw. But that was expected. Many people simply ignore those warnings. An act of stupidity.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:14 pm 
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Apparently Im not the only one who took offense to the blame game.

http://news.bostonherald.com/opinion/view.bg?articleid=100495


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1688
Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
The op ed pieces have the writers names attached to them. Writers and columnists have been disciplined over gross violations contained in their pieces. Editorials have no authors attached to them.

If the op ed pieces were really written bythe editors of the paper, then the pieces were written to make it look like they were attributed to a particular writer. Anyone have any greater insight as to the inner workings of a newspaper, as I do not?

New Orleans, Lousiana and the US government have known for decades the Mississsippi Delta was in great peril. Blame, if there is any, extends not to one person or group.

Gene


Last edited by Gene DeMambro on Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:29 pm
Posts: 1221
Check out Chavezs comments--slips idea of aid in between his bashing Bush for a natural disaster.

Odd, don't recall a head of state blaming the people blasted by the tsunami.

But then again, there are remarkably few folks stepping up with offers of aid to the US period.

(Isreal, Canada are about it)

Plenty of sympathy, sorrow and concern---but I see little substantive effort to help--or even substantive offers of aid.

I wonder when I can expect the UN to publically insult other nations about being "stingy" where disaster aid to the USA is concerned.

(hey that was the word they directed at us)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:44 pm 
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I don't recall street-gangs after 9/11/01 or after the tsunami breaking out the guns and shooting at the relief workers! :oops:

With both of those previous disasters, as well as previous hurricanes that hit FL and the southeast prior to this... and even the massive flooding of the midwestern plains states not too long ago, there simply wasn't this type of massive violence and looting from certain segments of the population. The last time such massive violence occured were... Hmmmmm... infiltrated anarchist groups during political/economic summits/conventions, after certain cities/colleges lost major sporting events, after police officers weren't found guilty (but not after OJ or Michael weren't found guilty), and going back far enough during the massive Watts Riots.

I dunno... we should have sympathy for this? :roll:

No. Sympathy and help goes to those who are doing their best to overcome a bad situation, not to those who try to take advantage of others during a bad situation and certainly not to those who are shooting at the people trying to help! :P :x


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 Post subject: blame
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:23 am 
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Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
I don't know if you or anyone can blame Bush for the actual hurricane; however, we can blame many for the response, or the quality of those things that were built that didn't stand up. For example: the levees were built to withstand a category 3 hurricane because to build one to withstand a category 5 would have cost too much money (20/20). I guess you take your chances; you can blame the many people who didn't take the advice of the govt. and move when they had the chance; and you can certainly blame Bush for bad perception if nothing else right now. His real blame or credit will be judged later, but watching him on TV with that shi* eating grin as thousands are presumed dead doesn't wash with many people.

There is obviously much more here in this disaster than in Andrew to be considered, and Bush will have a lot of work ahead of him. It will be interesting to see what he does with support and $$ for the region considering his fight against terrorism which is bankrupting America and his falling favorbility ratings. This is the stuff that makes or breaks a president's legacy in my opinion.

mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:12 am 
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Location: Boston
While I suppose aid would be appreciated, do we really expect those with less to give to those with more? America, as the richest nation in history, is best qualified to handle disasters in and outside its boundaries. The sudan will NOT be sending us cash until they can feed their own children.

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--Ian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:37 pm 
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I can't agree with you more, Mike. That grin is positively bothersome.

Although one can't place blame for the storm, the response has been as bad as it can get. Read this.

Bush Says Relief Results 'Not Acceptable'
Sep 02 11:38 AM US/Eastern


By JENNIFER LOVEN
Associated Press Writer


MOBILE, Ala.

Quote:
President Bush, facing blistering criticism for his administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, said Friday "the results are not acceptable." He spoke on the White House grounds and then flew Mobile, Ala., the first of three stops on the Gulf Coast.

The president was accompanied by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. The department, which oversees the Federal Emergency Management Agency, has been accused of responding sluggishly to the deadly hurricane.

The administration is working on plans for housing tens of thousands of people forced from their homes in New Orleans, Bush said.

"We'll get on top of this situation," Bush said, "and we're going to help the people that need help."


Working on plans?????

Now there's going to be plenty of excuses for the poor response. None of them are acceptable. FEMA's only job is to plan for these things and as it falls under the dept of homeland security, Chertoff is directly responsible for the conditions we see today.

They should have had a play book with complete instructions on how to rescue when roads a flooded, bridges are gone etc, how to feed and water tens of thousands of people, and how to maintain order in the city.

All this should have been firmly documented in the 4 years since 9/11/01 we've had to prepare for a destruction of a major metropolitan area.


Unbelievably sad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:16 pm 
FEMA tried to get in there but ran into some problems with greedy people who felt their lives where more important then other peoples. So guess, what? Now they are all suffering because of them. It won't be long and the military will have to start grinding away at these hoodlums.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:23 pm 
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Again, no excuse. Martial law should have been imposed. The Guard should have orders to shoot and disperse the crowds. Should have been SOP.

Or was that what WAS in their play book?

If to rescue efforts are met by mean people, cut and run.

I would edit that to "cut them down."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:52 pm 
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Prior to the National Guard being called into New Orleans, there were street gangs shooting at relief workers! Whether it was the Red Cross, volunteers from across the nation, or any other person trying to give aid, there is no excuse for thugs using this natural disaster to aid their illegal takeover. There are people stranded without food and shelter, but the relief workers who can help get them to shelter or provide them with food have been given the order to retreat until the National Guard can insure their (the relief worker's) safety! What is wrong with this picture?

As previously pointed out, there was not massive looting, rioting, violence, and certainly not shots being fired at relief workers coming to aid, after 9/11/01, previous hurricanes, previous floods, other disasters. There were documented cases of price gouging and some cases of theft, but in those other disasters, the local folks were part of stopping that from carrying on. Not so in New Orleans.

I'm not blaming the victims, and with the amount of warning that Katrina was coming in with more power than ever, there is plenty of room to complain about the fact that supplies, provisions, and actions weren't brought closer to the LA/MS area in advance (at the very least), but fercryinoutloud... I'd be pretty upset if I or one of my loved ones went there to help and were killed by some street gang punks!

The authorities on-hand did not have the fire-power to suppress the guerilla tactics from the street gang's anarchy. Now the National Guard is mobilized, but having just come back from Iraq, most of them are more than a little hesitant to open fire on any American citizen. Tough call to make. I hope it works out.

Then again, regarding building the levies to withstand a Cat 3 storm... that's statistically and actuarily not necessarily a bad call. With hindsight, now it seems so, but not before. Similar comments were made about the massive flooding in the heartland not that many years ago. Eventually, things will return to normal and be rebuilt. The biggest tragedy is the high loss of life... You can rebuild levies and buildings, you can pump the water out of New Orleans, you can repair houses and roads, but people and pets are gone. The "monetary" costs pale in comparison. (I must wonder though, how someone could have "starved to death" as people are reported to have on the news, in 3-4 days... I'm not a doctor, but I've been on a juice/water fast before for 5-6 days... I know you need clean water to survive in a few days, but "starve"? I'm sure the MDs here can explain that to me...)


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 Post subject: Hurricane Pam
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:24 pm 
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Actually they had just wrapped up their big planning meeting to figure out how to address all these issues on July 26th. Irony anyone? It is also an errie look into what actually came to pass...

I heard on an NPR report that they assumed the levys held but the storm surges were larger than the levys and filled the bowl of New Orleans anyway.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/newsrela ... amends.htm
Quote:
July 26, 2004

Courtesy of FEMA

BATON ROUGE, La. -- Hurricane Pam brought sustained winds of 120 mph, up to 20 inches of rain in parts of southeast Louisiana and storm surge that topped levees in the New Orleans area. More than one million residents evacuated and Hurricane Pam destroyed 500,000-600,000 buildings. Emergency officials from 50 parish, state, federal and volunteer organizations faced this scenario during a five-day exercise held this week at the State Emergency Operations Center in Baton Rouge.

The exercise used realistic weather and damage information developed by the National Weather Service, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the LSU Hurricane Center and other state and federal agencies to help officials develop joint response plans for a catastrophic hurricane in Louisiana.

"We made great progress this week in our preparedness efforts," said Ron Castleman, FEMA Regional Director. "Disaster response teams developed action plans in critical areas such as search and rescue, medical care, sheltering, temporary housing, school restoration and debris management. These plans are essential for quick response to a hurricane but will also help in other emergencies."

"Hurricane planning in Louisiana will continue," said Colonel Michael L. Brown, Deputy Director for Emergency Preparedness, Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness. "Over the next 60 days, we will polish the action plans developed during the Hurricane Pam exercise. We have also determined where to focus our efforts in the future."

A partial summary of action plans follows:

Debris

* The debris team estimates that a storm like Hurricane Pam would result in 30 million cubic yards of debris and 237,000 cubic yards of household hazardous waste
* The team identified existing landfills that have available storage space and locations of hazardous waste disposal sites. The debris plan also outlines priorities for debris removal.

Sheltering

* The interagency shelter group identified the need for about 1,000 shelters for a catastrophic disaster. The shelter team identified 784 shelters and has developed plans for locating the remaining shelters.
* In a storm like Hurricane Pam, shelters will likely remain open for 100 days. The group identified the resources necessary to support 1000 shelters for 100 days. They planned for staff augmentation and how to include shelterees in shelter management.
* State resources are adequate to operate shelters for the first 3-5 days. The group planned how federal and other resources will replenish supplies at shelters.

Search and Rescue

* The search and rescue group developed a transportation plan for getting stranded residents out of harm's way.
* Planners identified lead and support agencies for search and rescue and established a command structure that will include four areas with up to 800 searchers.

Medical

* The medical care group reviewed and enhanced existing plans. The group determined how to implement existing immunization plans rapidly for tetanus, influenza and other diseases likely to be present after a major hurricane.
* The group determined how to re-supply hospitals around the state that would face heavy patient loads.
* The medical action plan includes patient movement details and identifies probable locations, such as state university campuses, where individuals would receive care and then be transported to hospitals, special needs shelters or regular shelters as necessary.

Schools

* The school group determined that 13,000-15,000 teachers and administrators would be needed to support affected schools. The group acknowledged the role of local school boards and developed strategies for use by local school officials.
* Staffing strategies include the use of displaced teachers, retired teachers, emergency certified teachers and others eligible for emergency certification. Displaced paraprofessionals would also be recruited to fill essential school positions.
* The group discussed facility options for increasing student population at undamaged schools and prioritizing repairs to buildings with less damage to assist in normalizing operations
* The school plan also calls for placement or development of temporary schools near temporary housing communities built for hurricane victims.

The Hurricane Pam scenario focused on 13 parishes in southeast Louisiana-Ascension, Assumption, Jefferson, Lafourche, Orleans, Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. James, St. John, St. Tammany Tangipahoa, Terrebonne. Representatives from outside the primary parishes participated since hurricane evacuation and sheltering involve communities throughout the state and into Arkansas, Mississippi and Texas.


Unfortunately they walked away with questions to answer instead of answers to the questions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:25 pm
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Quote:
Again, no excuse. Martial law should have been imposed. The Guard should have orders to shoot and disperse the crowds. Should have been SOP.


Well your not just shooting one person, you would in essence shoot thousands, because that one shot would just anger the crowd and prompt more shootings. And who really wants to be the first guardsmen to shoot another American. I mean, you can barely shoot and Iraqi without being crucified, and we are at war with them. I can only imagine how the nay sayers would react to the killing of Americans. The only solution is give these people food and water. Last year I went several weeks without power after one hurricane, and I went crazy. I literally snapped, and had to check myself into a motel by myself and mellow out in the AC. I cant even imagine having to go through that without food or water.

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Si vis Pacem, Para bellum


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