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 Post subject: X, R, PG-13, PG, G, NR
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:43 pm 
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Now - whether you like the movie industry standard of ratings or not I'm using them only as a frame of reference to kick off this discussion.

Of late it seems to me that there are more and more threads on these forums that I would rate "R" (admit 18 and older unless accompanied by an adult) and "X" (no one under 18 admitted.)

Now perhaps this is my perception and mine alone. The vast majority of threads on these forums are PG-13, PG, or even G rated.

This is the premiere Uechi-Ryu discussion site in North America. As least - that's my best guess since I've knocked around the web and not found another with the traffic nor the quality of discussion that is open to the general public.

And there are thousands of children and youth who practice Uechi-ryu who are gettting more and more internet savy, wired, everyday. And parents are not always able to be with their youth/children when the surf.

Now I understand when we're talking about self-defense we are going to be talking about violent acts and that kind of discussion is going to involve certain content. That's not my concern really. It has more to do with the general overall tone on these forums.

And I know I should cite specific examples but I don't really want to call out specific people. So here is a specific example without specific people:

GEM has applied the profane language filter (whatever it is called) to these forums so if you type certain designated cuss words they don't appear. Yet many many people re-write their text so they can still use the profane language they want to use. The words that are cut out are, for the most part, the words you can't say in public broadcast. This is a public forum. To me, the parallel makes sense.

Strong emotions have been and can be conveyed without using extensive profane language. As it stands now on these forums, if a parent of a youth training in Uechi-Ryu approached me about suggesting this site as a resource for their child I would not.

I think this is one of the main reasons that the Kombat Kids forum has had such difficulty taking off. Kids are online, kids are wired, kids train Uechi. Coming to a discussion forum on their training is a natural progression - yet it is not happening here.

As a matter of fact...

KidsKarateTelevisionOnline.com has a kids-friendly links page. Guess who is listed under the heading - "Safe Marital Arts Links for Kids"?

Eastern Arts Online Magazine

Yep, you guessed it. That's the home page where you can find a link to these discussion forums. So we're out there in the world being advertised as "Kid Safe." Do the forums live up to that?

I'm not saying we have to. But I am saying that we need to think about how the tone of these forums will contribute to whether or not Uechi teachers and parents use the resources available on this site to promote training in Uechi-Ryu for the next generation.


Last edited by Dana Sheets on Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:48 pm 
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Posts: 671
Good post Dana.

I will point out that it's up to the individual forum moderators to police the content of their forums. They all do a fairly good job at that.

There have been some recent examples where I've passsed on some posts where I can't even determine if they are safe for work, or home for that matter. I will cite an example. The bjjgirl posting that someone labeled as p.o.r.n. I didn't open any of the links, so I can't make a determination about that. If it was dicey or inappropriate, why are the links still there?

Other options that have been discussed are closed forums that no one can access unless registered and then approved as contributors/readers. The Women's Locker room here is one example.

I frequent other forums that use that option.

Food for thought.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:59 pm 
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Actually Kevin that's a great example.

I started this thread right after I'd taken the fightgirls thread down from general public view. The fightgirls thread started out where I like my forum (PG-13ish) but ended up going in the wrong direction so I took it down. And then I got to thinking about who comes here we don't see and who posts here and who doesn't.

When I have my own kids and if they train Uechi like I hope then I'd like to have a online place they can come and visit. Right now these forums aren't that in my view. So I'd thought I'd see what other folks are thinking.


Last edited by Dana Sheets on Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:18 pm 
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Location: Quincy MA, USA
does this site have a forum where adults can speak freely?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:22 pm 
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Yes, all the forums have that capability within the guidelines laid out explicity by each forum moderator. Read them and post as freely as you like within those bounds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:42 pm 
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I just pretended to subscribe to these forums as a user under 13 (I had to check a box that said I was under 13 on the "Register" page.

(BTW - Ted & George - "testkid" is me)

Here's what I received:

Quote:
Welcome to Uechi-Ryu.com Forums

In compliance with the COPPA act your account is currently inactive.

Please print this message out and have your parent or guardian sign and date it.
Then fax it to:



OR mail it to:



------------------------------ CUT HERE ------------------------------
Permission to Participate at Uechi-Ryu.com

Username: testkid
Password: testkid
Email: (removed by Dana)

ICQ Number:
AIM Address:
MSN Messenger:
Yahoo Messenger:
Web Site:
From:
Occupation:
Interests:

I HAVE REVIEWED THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY MY CHILD AND HEREBY GRANT PERMISSION TO Uechi-Ryu.com TO STORE THIS INFORMATION. I UNDERSTAND THIS INFORMATION CAN BE CHANGED AT ANY TIME BY ENTERING A PASSWORD. I UNDERSTAND THAT I MAY REQUEST FOR THIS INFORMATION TO BE REMOVED FROM Uechi-Ryu.com AT ANY TIME.


Parent or Guardian
(print your name here): _____________________

(sign here): __________________

Date: _______________

------------------------------ CUT HERE ------------------------------


Once the administrator has received the above form via fax or regular mail your
account will be activated.

Please do not forget your password as it has been encrypted in our database and
we cannot retrieve it for you. However, should you forget your password you can
request a new one which will be activated in the same way as this account.

Thank you for registering.

--
Thanks.

[this email was generated automatically]


You'll notice that the send to information at the top is missing. Perhaps we can get that filled in?

And here's some information on COPPA, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Rule Act.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm

However there is no mention in the above email about what I would call the "not kid friendly" content that is sometimes discussed on these forums. Do we have a responsiblity to inform or is it up to the youth and parents to discover?


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 Post subject: Parents are dumb!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:50 pm 
Question: Why should the rest of the world compensate for a parents inability to control their children, or at the very least learn about computer administration. I don't have kids but if I did, there is no possible way that they would ever be able to access a site that I have deemed "inappropriate". Why? Because I am smarter then they are. I suggest you parents follow my example and educate yourselves because I for one am not going to join hands and help you raise your kids in some phony-bolony uetopia.


My advice, get busy, learn the ropes of parenting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:06 pm 
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Posts: 671
Quote:
Parents are dumb!


That's out of line.

I'm a parent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:24 pm 
Do you know how to admin a computer in your home Kevin? A LAN? How to read logs? Security? These are things parents in the digital age should know if they are to join the ranks of "good parents".

Mediocre parents who are not willing to do the work expect others who enjoy their rights to free speech to restrain themselves around their kids so as to take up their slack. They aren't willing to put the effort in to get themselves up to par as a parent. They basically ****** and their kids are vulnerable because of it.

Also, children should sit at the Kiddie Table and shouldn't be hanging around where the grownups are congregating. With that thought in mind, I will always continue to post what I feel in the best way that makes me feel better, profanity included. If moderators don't like that, feel free to ban me from these forums. I earned my right to say as I feel and I will not relinquish that right to take up the slack of lazy parents... I won't do it.

Don't like what I got to say, either hit me, or hit the books but get off your ass and do something for christs sake!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:58 pm 
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Location: Mount Dora, Florida
I also have a filter on email that reach me. So naturally, a word like "porno" gets bounced. The spammers simply use enough variation in the spelling, or use #@$ characters to mess up the filters.

I've requested that posters watch their language and be careful about the photos they post or link to. Yes, I know kids know about these things and if they really want to, can access these sites at will. If the spammers can get around my filters, they certainly will outsmart parents and AOL.

However, that doesn't mean we have to do it here.

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"Do or do not. there is no try!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:07 pm 
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Posts: 671
The discussion is not about whether or not parents can control their kids.

I can control mine nicely and do know how to monitor their computer usage, thanks for your concern. Tony.

It’s about the product being offered here which is/was a place for open discussion that is/was from what I gather, a highly visited and respected grouping of forums shared by many, including possibly and hopefully, (that’s why the kid’s corner was put up), children.

Here’s an analogy. My kids are free to go into the local news stand to buy a candy bar. Whose responsibility is it to keep the Hustlers and the Penthouses behind the counter? Should I keep my kids out of that store or should I expect the store owners to take the responsibility of keeping adult material in a safe place?

And I for one, who read these forums at work, which BTW has an absolute zero tolerance for opening a p.o.r.n site, or at home in my living room with my family sitting around, do not ever expect to click on a link here that will have bring me to an undesired location.

I know. I don’t like it, leave. Or hit someone I guess.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:12 pm 
gmattson wrote:
photos they post or link to. Yes, I know kids know about these things and if they really want to, can access these sites at will.


Not on my machines. My Neice and Nephews where here a few weeks ago. I setup accounts for them to play on complete with a list of banned sites and also filters. Yeah, I didn't want to listen to my Brother and Sister complaining about their kids surfing crap at my house but my biggest concern was them going to game sites and stuff and getting my computer contaminated with bad activeX controls and crap like that.

I took care of that business.

Surfing the web at "Uncle Tony's" house is so boring that these kids barely got on my machines the whole weekend they where here. Not only did I suceed in keeping my machines clean of crap, and saving them from looking at dead iraq's on cnn.com, I actually managed to get them off the damn computers and do something fun like GO FISHING and KAYAKING!

Just think, if parents where as smart as me, they could get their kids outside more instead of staring at computers all day getting fat and twisted in the mind....

It'll never happen though, parents will remain dumb, their kids will be fat and lazy, and of course, it will be someone elses fault.


Tony


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:14 pm 
Kevin Mackie wrote:
I know. I don’t like it, leave. Or hit someone I guess.


Well, don't hit me, hit Dana, she's the one who posted it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
No way. She'd hit back a lot harder than you.


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 Post subject: Tony...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 6021
Location: Mount Dora, Florida
If parents (or their kids) would like to participate in a forum (kombat kids for example), how would you stop someone like "chirp" who I just banned on this forum on another thread (oil from garbage)? He/she is smart enough to get around all the filters and bans I put on the site and pops up at least once a month.

You may be able to control your kids at home by eliminating anything but a site where only Mr. Rogers is being broadcast, but get real.... most kids are far smarter than their parents will ever be about computers and will get into the "bad" sites eventually. If not at uncle Tony's, then at their best friends' home, where the controls are easier to bypass.

The point I believe Dana is tryin to make is not one of controlling your kids, but making Eastern Arts a place where interesting discussions can take place without having to resourt to street jive and making a point by posting a lewd picture. (I'm not talking about the pinups on Van's forum either)

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"Do or do not. there is no try!"


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