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 Post subject: Misandry
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:10 pm 
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Folks,

it is high time we put to the light of day the hatred of men that is being spread daily.....that is what these posts and threads are all about.....we have a special section of the web site just for women's issues and that is not the place where discussion of women hating men is allowed.......nor will the discussion even be allowed there.....how dare you even suggest that.....

Here we have a few quotes that emphasize the point of men's rights and men's issues that have been not only ignored, but denigrated.......

http://www.misandry.net/misandryquotes.htm

Quote:
"When women hold off from marrying men, we call it independence. When men hold off from marrying women, we call it fear of commitment."
-Warren Farrell

"Why does the dad only become unfit for his parenting role after separation?"
-Jayne Woodman

"Part of the reason that men seem so much less loving than women is that men's behavior is measured with a feminine ruler. "
- Francesca M. Cancian


"Women fight just as dirty as men in the workplace and bedroom, they just don't want to admit it. ... The fundamental lie of sisterhood, that women co-operate but men compete, creates a separate and unequal moral standard for women's professional conduct that is self-defeating."
-Kate Fillion

"It is absolutely outrageous that I am permitted to know these men's names and not the names of the women who accused them of such a serious offence. This unjust law seems to be based on a strange alliance between old-fashioned chivalry and modern, politically correct feminism. Kind-hearted but infuriatingly patronising male traditionalists view women as sweet, weak, dim, infantile and needy of protection under all circumstances. Meanwhile the more extremist members of the sisterhood regard every single man in the universe as a potential rapist, and every woman alive as essentially honourable and incapable of evil. Hence this legislation that shields women from embarrassing publicity and implies that men deserve humiliating exposure because they are guilty of rape until proved innocent. ... I'm a feminist. But I'm also the mother of a nice son, the daughter of a compassionate man, the sister of pleasant brothers, the wife of a gentle husband and the cousin, friend and niece of many jolly decent blokes. And I cannot endorse a law that regards male feelings and reputations as irrelevant. Some women may be fragrantly fragile little lotus blossoms. But a fair number are vicious poison ivies."
-Donu Kogbara


. . Feminism has, for the first time in history, turned women from shaming individual men who are judged dishonorable, to shaming men in general and masculinity as an institution. And the very real danger in this is that if men come to perceive that there is no way for them to achieve honor, to be recognized publicly and privately as 'good' men, then they may sense that they have little to lose by taking what they want, since they have little to gain by restraining themselves. I very much fear that if we do not turn aside from our still-growing, wholesale shaming of men and the Patriarchy and all things male, that our future may contain civil violence of a degree we have never seen before."
-Everyman.org



"Today fathers in England, America and most of the Western world stand upon a foundation of sand, knowing that our loved ones can be ripped away from us and there is often little we can do about it. We invest our lives in the children we love and tell them that we will always be there for them. But in the back of our minds we can't help but think of a question which Spiderman no doubt considered before he began his ascent up that crane hanging over Tower Bridge: will we be allowed to?"
-Glenn Sacks

" ... we are surrounded by a Salem-like frenzy concerning sexual matters, orchestrated all over the Western world by coalitions of feminists, socialists, ecology-freaks, greens and so forth, intent on creating a statist matriarchy. They are pretty damn successful. ... I simply don't know how men can function in this matriarchal nightmare."
-Barbara Amiel



The feminist resistance to any discussion of fatherhood has been defensive, and sometimes downright offensive when it shades into virgin-birth fantasies about the total redundancy of men."
-Ros Coward


"The key to the garden gate is the belief that men have ruined everything, but women, through their special attributes, can solve the world's problems. Ironically, this belief extols the ideals of femininity that earlier feminists fought so hard to escape."
-Rene Denfeld

"In America, the divorced parent who gets the kids, gets the house, gets the money. You don't own your house. Your kids do. So that's why the women go after the kids. That's how the monster works."
-Rich Zubaty



"The Best Interest of the Child for every child in America is that the constitutional rights of both parents be protected against the good intentions, pretensions, intrusions, and ignorance of the State.

"Do not cry that it is our duty to serve you. We do not recognize such duty. Do not cry that you need us. We do not consider need a claim. Do not cry that you own us. You don't. Do not cry that we owe you. We do not recognize unearned guilt. Do not beg us to return. We are on strike, we, the men of the mind."
-Ayn Rand

"When a parent intentionally or recklessly injures a child, we call it abuse. We punish those people. We put them in jail. When a man or woman intentionally or recklessly injures a spouse, we call it abuse. We punish those people. We put them in jail. When the government intentionally or recklessly injures a parent, we call it family law. We pay its agents. We give them judicial immunity."
-Mike Newdow

"'Equality' is meaningless. Is a bee equal to a sparrow? The term is meaningless. And anyway, feminism was never honestly about Equality. Feminism was about MORE STUFF FOR WOMEN. Women don't want to mine coal or get drafted into war. That's too much Equality for them."
-Rich Zubaty

"... someday, the distortion of truth by the radical feminists of our time will be seen to have been the greatest intellectual crime of the second half of the twentieth century. At the present time, however, we still live under the aegis of that crime, and calling attention to it is an act of great moral courage."
-Howard Schwartz

"DNA Tests don't lie. Mothers do."
- Rich

"Feminism cannot survive an open debate."
-John Jones

"If there is such a thing as a wage gap ... if it is, in fact true that women make only 3/4 the wages of men ... why do corporations continue to hire men? Why not just hire women and save the 25%?"
-Unknown

"A country which allows this situation to grow year by year is on a collision course for disaster. A society which finds any criticism of the situation hard to take is being hypocritical and irresponsible.... generations of children are roaming run-down council estates like packs of wild dogs. .... Single mothers are not necessarily defenceless creatures. Often they are tough, ruthless, greedy and exploitive and they’ll carry on being like that until they’re stopped."
-Lynda Lee-Potter

"Men are not the oppressors of women. The simple proof of that is that Women are not oppressed. Women are not now, and never have been "oppressed". Women have the right to vote with NO concomitant obligation to be drafted in time of war to protect their right to vote. Personally, I don't see how they got the one without being forced to assume the other. They have the power without the responsibility. The only way Democracy got reborn in the modern world was because men fought and died battling the power of kings and their corporations to seize this right. But women gained it by fighting what? A "courageous" ideological struggle? It's Twinkies. Philosophical Oatmeal."
-Rich Zubaty



This is the most distressing quote of all (in that it sures sounds like some feminist propaganda)

Quote:
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
-Adolph Hitler


and that is exactly how the femnists sounds when talking about children and the govt and men....

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Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:12 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
Just a few more quotes in support of democracy......that seem relevant to the topic at hand...

"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."
-Thomas Jefferson

"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides."
-Thomas Paine

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master."
- George Washington


"Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say anything they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage."
-Winston Churchill

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Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:21 pm 
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Posts: 671
How is it you feel hated?
By who in particular?
Where is it being spread?
If it's daily and I read a bit, where is it?
Are you seeing/hearing/reading what you want to see/read/hear?

Basically, besides the two lesbian professors that made an attempt to raise you, which females in your life are you pissed at?

There must be a point to your posts. If so, point it out without all these references from someone else's bitch list.

And for a bit of information, the women's section here is titled"Women and the martial arts", not "place for men to whine about how they are mistreated".


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:23 pm 
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The following had to be edited for smut words that would likely be offensive......

Double standards are bad except when they are against men, at which time they become not only ok, but incredibly important......

Quote:
Ok, so my ex is taking me back to court ... for what, you ask? Mo' money, of course.

But, that's not actually what I'm writing about ... So I'm talking to my lawyer ... well wait, a little background info first. My daughter is 13 and my son is 17. In georgia, a child gets to choose where they live when they turn 14, and child support pretty much ends when the child turns 18.

Ok, having said that ... my lawyer asks me if, when my daughter turns 14, would she choose to live with me?

I say yes I think she will ... but ... with my son being 18, and his child support ending, if my daughter chooses to live with me, then my child support to my ex will come to a grinding halt. In addition to losing all that money, the ex is going to have a tough time paying me child support. In fact, she will probably fight like hell before she starts paying support money. I'm fearful that mom will drag the kids into the fight, and I really don't want to put my sweet lil' daughter through that.

And my lawyer says - I am NOT making this up:

"Well, you won't get child support."

I laughed.

And then the silence fell.

And in the silence, she deadpans: "I'm not joking."

She was entirely serious. I can sue for child support, but she says the courts won't award it, and it'd be a waste of money to try.

I splutter: "##### ME?"

She says she knows it's not fair, but that's how it works. Mothers don't pay child support. They just don't.

She continues on: "In fact, it's possible you'll continue paying child support if your daughter comes to live with you."

I ask (in no pleasant terms) why that would be?

She says: "Well, we want to be sure that the children don't go visit their mother's house, and they're eating rancid peanut butter for breakfast."

But apparently it's ok if they're eating rancid peanut butter at Dad's house, where they live.

So I'm reeling a bit, thinking that this has to be some kind of a joke. I decide a little more blunt language may be in order, shake things up a bit. I try a different tack: "So you're telling me because I have a penis I have to pay for my kids, but because she's born with a vagina, she doesn't have to support her kids? No matter which of us they live with?"

She says: "That about sums it up."

I'm ... I'm ... I'm ... I have no words.

You know ... misandry in this world is more often than not subtle and hidden in ways to make it more palatable. This type of in-your-face sexism is, in my opinion, rare. When I do see it though, I am reminded that there are hordes of men who've faced it and survived without offing themselves, or have restrained themselves enough to keep from literally murdering the vampires we too-kindly call 'mothers'.

I'm perpetually amazed at how strong - REALLY strong men are to resist that temptation.

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Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:29 pm 
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Thanks Kevin for your lack of empathy, I knew I could count on you, sir

Quote:
which females in your life are you pissed at?


this isnt just about a personal vendetta.....thanks for making me less willing to share my personal info.......but that was exactly your point, wasnt it?

Quote:
There must be a point to your posts.


and if i wrote the point straight out, you wouldnt understand.......doesnt make you a bad person

Quote:
If so, point it out without all these references from someone else's bitch list
.

like i said, it aint as simple as a bitch list......sorry to disapoint

Quote:
And for a bit of information, the women's section here is titled"Women and the martial arts", not "place for men to whine about how they are mistreated".


and that is why you will never ever find a thread or post in the women's forum not relatyed to martial arts (and also why i can never find a thread in which there is male bashing instead of disussion of martial arts), unless I start looking for them in which case they are found all over the place, but otherwise they dont exist

and i wonder why it is so important that women get their own room, cuz we men dont listen good enough?

where are the men only rooms?

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Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:33 pm 
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Posts: 671
Maybe your MSO should have come equiped with a warning to please use responsibly.

Quote:
I am reminded that there are hordes of men who've faced it and survived without offing themselves, or have restrained themselves enough to keep from literally murdering the vampires we too-kindly call 'mothers'.


If those are your words, you've got bigger and more urgent problems than paying child support. May I suggest some counseling?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:39 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
S.C.U.M. Manifesto
(Society for Cutting Up Men)

so boys, when they are done making jokes about cutting you into pieces, will you laugh or will you respond?

http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminazis/

Quote:
Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex.

The male is completely egocentric, trapped inside himself, incapable of empathizing or identifying with others, or love, friendship, affection of tenderness. He is a completely isolated unit, incapable of rapport with anyone. His responses are entirely visceral, not cerebral; his intelligence is a mere tool in the services of his drives and needs; he is incapable of mental passion, mental interaction; he can't relate to anything other than his own physical sensations. He is a half-dead, unresponsive lump, incapable of giving or receiving pleasure or happiness; consequently, he is at best an utter bore, an inoffensive blob, since only those capable of absorption in others can be charming. He is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than the apes because, unlike the apes, he is capable of a large array of negative feelings -- hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, doubt -- and moreover, he is aware of what he is and what he isn't.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:44 pm 
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Kevin, have you raped a woman lately?

cuz catherine mckinnon says that all sex between husband and wife is non-consensual (that means you are raping her).........so kevin, how many timeds have you raped women?

how about beating your wife? what was the last time you beat your wife kevin? did it feel good?

she doesnt need proof that you beat her, all she needs to do is call the police, lie and tell em you are hitting her, the mere fact that you are still in your home when the police get there is sufficient proof to get your arse locked up in jail.....no real proof is needed........

you ok with that kevin, double standard for men and women?

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 Post subject: Harvey..
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:39 pm 
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No question about it. . . you have a legitimate gripe.

And, as long as you obey the forum rules, I don't see anyone being upset with you posting on Pather's forum.

But... (there always is a "but") my personal feeling about reading posts here, is that I prefer to read what our readers have to say about a subject rather than read long quotes from other sources. (Nothing wrong with providing links though, in case anyone might wish to get more information)

I've been treated fairly by all the women in my life and I bet most men will say the same. Doesn't mean we are always happy about every situation we run into, but I guess we could say that about everything in life.

If we started posting quotes from every man and woman who feels they have been "shafted" by their mate, I sense that more women will have stories than men.

In posting here, you are making us aware of a one-sided argument. What if the women began looking around for men abuse women stories and began matching your tales of woe with theirs.

What have we accomplished?

Do you want us all to send letters to the President? The Supreme Court? Our local Congressman?

Marriage is a lot like entering a business arrangement. Know your partner very well and make sure your lawyer is smarter than hers! :)

Susan sent me the following joke this morning. Everyone who has a Jewish mother or mother-in-law will appreciate the humor and underlying truth to the message. Should we encourage all Jewish daughters and sons to post their tales of woe and perhaps attempt to find a way to legislate Jewish mothers??? What say Harvey?

Subject: JEWISH MOTHER


Phone rings. JEWISH MOTHER picks up the phone and answers

Jewish Mother
Hello?

Daughter
Hi Mom. Can I leave the kids with you tonight?

Jewish Mother
You're going out?

Daughter
Yes.

Jewish Mother
With whom?

Daughter
With a friend.

Jewish Mother
I don't know why you left your husband. He is such a good man.

Daughter
I didn't leave him. He left me!

Jewish Mother
You let him leave you, and now you go out with anybodies and
nobodies.

Daughter
I do not go out with anybody. Can I bring over the kids?

Jewish Mother
I never left you to go out with anybody except your father.

Daughter
There are lots of things that you did and I don't.

Jewish Mother
What are you hinting at?

Daughter
Nothing. I just want to know if I can bring the kids over tonight.

Jewish Mother
You're going to stay the night with him? What will your husband say if
he finds out?

Daughter
My EX husband. I don't think he would be bothered. From the day he left
me, he probably never slept alone!

Jewish Mother
So you're going to sleep over at this loser's place?

Daughter
He's not a loser.

Jewish Mother
A man who goes out with a divorced woman with children is a loser and a
parasite.

Daughter
I don't want to argue. Should I bring over the kids or not?

Jewish Mother
Poor children with such a mother.

Daughter
Such a what?

Jewish Mother
With no stability. No wonder your husband left you.

Daughter
ENOUGH !!!

Jewish Mother
Don't scream at me. You probably scream at this loser too!

Daughter
Now you're worried about the loser?

Jewish Mother
Ah, so you see he's a loser. I spotted him immediately.

Daughter
Goodbye, mother.

Jewish Mother
Wait! Don't hang up! When are you bringing them over?

Daughter
I'm not bringing them over! I'm not going out!

Jewish Mother
If you never go out, how do you expect to meet anyone?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:51 pm 
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A few points:

You don't need to post 5 different threads on the same exact topic, that's not a discussion, it's a monologue.

Dana never said that you couldn't discuss the issue at all. She left most of your threads open, as a matter of fact, it's just that nobody appears to be interested in commenting on your articles.

The Women and Martial Arts forum isn't woman-only. In fact, most posts are made by men it appears to men. The Women's Locker Room is women-only. There are things women are not comfortable talking about around men, which is reason enough for it to exist.

If you feel there are issues you're not comfortable discussing around women, maybe you should see if there's any interest in a Men's Locker Room. It's reasonable for such a thing to exist if there's enough people who would use it for a real purpose. My guess is that it doesn't currently exist because nobody really cares.

There's always a few whackos with some extreme views. This isn't news, and it isn't particularly disturbing or worrisome.

I will acknowledge that there's a social meme that says men are idiotic. That's a bad thing, though I think the analogous characterizations of women are at least as damaging.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:55 pm 
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ATH,

Please don't start out walking on thin ice.

You post a situation where someone, perhaps someone you know, finds out that HE won't get child support if the children live with him. That is not the case throughout the nation, which can be proven with court records. There is currently an orchestrated "father's rights" movement that may have been needed when it was started, but I have first-hand knowledge of a case where the "father's rights" folks got behind a proven abuser! Their assistance allowed that abusive person to stalk and threaten the mother, gain custody of the children, continue to hit the children, obtain a child support verdict against the mother that was 5X what the federal guidelines say the support should be, and helped the abusive father find just the right weasel attorney to help him continue his controlling abusive ways. My point? There are two sides to every issue.

For the record, you have not been told you can come back to the tough issues forum. If you can play nice this time, you can stay... You aren't making a good start of it.

Understood?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:12 pm 
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Akil

Yeah, in many ways guys get the shaft.

As do gals.

My personal view is that equal treatment means exactly that--equal.
And that is how we should be treated.

(as an example--If a women wishs to be able to have an abortion, then I should be able to legally abrogate my responsibilties as a parent as well.)

But most of them have more to do with lack of action on the part of men--far more than it does to actions BY women.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:42 pm 
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For the record I asked Akil to bring this thread over here because I thought it better suited to this forum and the skills of this moderator. I did not know then, as I do now, that Akil was unwelcome here.

However I stick by my statement that when this thread was started on my forum and why I locked it.

Quote:
This is just not the right forum for this discussion. Please take it over to Panther's "Tough Issues" forum.

And once again you have done what I've asked you not to do. Simply posted a gigantic abstract from an article without framing your point, your questions, or your goal in the discussion.

Was I somehow unclear previously? Simply boldfacing sections of an article doesn't frame a debate.

Dana


Now - on this forum you've framed your debate -- that's good. However you've decided to help out your argument by asking one of the long-timer forum members and someone who posts with the upmost respectability if he's a rapist. I think that's a completely awful way to post. I generally try to follow the "discuss the issue not the person who posted it" rule. But iIn this case the issue isn't really the issue because of the way you've chosen to post it and how you've chosen to address the other posters.

And, for your information - there is a Women's Locker Room because women emailed me offline and asked for it. I then ask GEM about it and he made it happen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:48 am 
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Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
Quote:
(as an example--If a women wishs to be able to have an abortion, then I should be able to legally abrogate my responsibilties as a parent as well.)


When men start gestating children and giving birth, then absolutely they should have the right to have to terminate their pregancies - should they so wish. But as long as only women have the special ability to carry babies, I'm profoundly comfortable giving them that choice.

And under certains sets of conditions, men can sign over all parental rights-even sheding themselves of their responsibilities to child support. Check your local laws, as your mileage may vary.

Gene


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:36 am 
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Just in case anyone doesn't understand how the probate courts work... And probate court is where these matters are decided.

Going to court does not mean that "justice" is served. It only means that there is an opportunity for a third party, an often BIASED third party, to dictate what is going to happen. That bias can be on either extreme of the pendulum swing depending on a number of factors... the particular court/jurisdiction, the particular judge, how well one of the attorney's knows the judge or how "friendly" they are, if the judge has been at odds with one of the attorneys in the past, how open the judge (or certain other court players) are to having the "wheels of justice" greased for one side or the other, how (un)ethical certain attorneys are, what other "biasing" information can be passed to the judge through other parties, if one of the attorneys fails to properly represent the interests of his/her client, if one of the clients is vindictive enough and been able to find/hire an attorney to carry out his/her "get even" scheme to make the other party "pay", and on and on.

It really has very little to do with "justice"...


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