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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:37 am 
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http://articles.news.aol.com/business/a ... 01&cid=505


Come ON! People cant be that sensitive!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:35 pm 
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What's the REAL message behind the minds of these folks, and what are they secretly thinking?....


...SUBMIT UTTERLY TO THE WILL OF THE INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY, JEBUS!!!
CONVERT NOW, OR DIE, HERETIC SCUM!!!
:x-mas: :2gunfire: :crazyeyes:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:05 pm 
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They're no more sensitive than those who file lawsuits to have Nativity scenes removed.

-Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:27 pm 
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From what I read, its the delibrate exclusion of a traditonal greeting that upsets people.

The USA is overwhlemingly Christain and has been since day one.

Protection and tolerence of relgion means pretty much everyone--Christains included.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:37 pm 
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Doug Erickson wrote:
They're no more sensitive than those who file lawsuits to have Nativity scenes removed.

-Doug


True.
(Damn you!)
:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:56 pm 
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cxt wrote:
From what I read, its the deliberate exclusion of a traditional greeting that upsets people.

The USA is overwhelmingly Christian and has been since day one.




~Which remains one of it's intrinsic problems.
(I speak only of separation of Church and State, or rather lack of, not the religion itself.)
You want to believe in God? Fine.
I respect that.
I think the concept is inane, but I respect your right to be inane, and in fact, I'll even respect your religious culture, as long as:
You keep it out of my Government,
My Public Schools
and out of my science and politics.
-And off my currency.

As John Stewart roughly said:
~Federal employees should use their allowed time off from work during Christmas day to ponder the true meaning of "Separation of Church and State."

Wal-Mart has every right to do what they are doing, and since Wal-Mart (I cannot believe I am defending Wal-Mart) is neither a representative of their faith,
or practicing discrimination against these Christian groups,
they are simply being bullies.

Let's call it what it is:
Religious intimidation.
It is clear that these people want to force this company under pressure to bend to their beliefs (And authority)
The fact that these people even raise an issue clearly reveals their true intentions, which is to validate their
own particular religious will over the American people.
Make no mistake about it.
There are many many folks in America who would like to bring
UBER-religious fundamentalism as a theocratic governance in America.

Just like Iran.

How lovely.
Woman treated as slaves
Heretic Burnings
Forbidden knowledge.
No dancing.
etc.
Mmm..I feel warm and toasty!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:51 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Meta wrote:

too much Fox is bad for you
Speak for yourself, dude.

.......... Image

I'm all for separation of church and state. I'm all for preventing the state from funding religious activities. On the other hand, political correctness has run amuck. These days in corporate and social America the rights of hypersensitive fascist neurotics superscedes the rights of individuals to express their cultural uniqueness.

Quick question. If our system of law is based upon Judeochristian teachings, should we pretend it isn't? Should we edit history so as not to offend the "disenfranchised"? We are not a homogenizing melting pot; we are a diverse salad bowl. Ethnicity and religiosity - or lack thereof - is a good thing. Respect and celebrate the differences.

The good news is that the idiocy leads to entertaining lawsuits such as the 1997 Seinfeld episode incident and entertaining programs such as Southpark.

Merry Hanuka, brother! Light the organic Kwanza tree, and may Allah bless the Winter Solstice without any animals being harmed in the process! :x-mas:

- Bill


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Bill

That's exactly the kind of "foxs" that could get a man into serious trouble.

Were can I sign up??


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:22 pm 
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Meta

The USA is not and has never been Iran.

What we are is an overwhelming Christain nation that is getting very tired of "tolerence" for everyone BUT Christains being mandated by the State.

I would challange you to see what what would happen if Wal-Mart tried to prevent its employees from using greeting from other relgions.
Only no-one ever does that--only Christains are barred.

I'm not what you would call a practicing Chistian in any case.

In this case its a business that is excluding--forbidding people in fact to use a traditional holiday greeting.

And thats wrong.

People have every right to take their business where-ever they want--its called "market forces."
Wal-Mart does not like it?
Tough--you can treat your customers however you wish--but there is no law forceign them to shop there.

Its also kinda funny to hear ANYONE claim that folks are acting as a "bully" to Wal-Mart--a company infamous for its own bulling and high pressure business tactics.

Perhaps its just Karma catching up with them.

Its also less than rational to conflate people wanting to be able to say "merry christmas" with people wanting to "burn heretics."


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:34 pm 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
Meta wrote:

too much Fox is bad for you
Speak for yourself, dude.

.......... Image

Meta: I'm sorry..what were you saying?
I wasn't quite paying attention....

Bill Glasheen wrote:
Quick question. If our system of law is based upon Judeochristian teachings, should we pretend it isn't?


Meta: Because it isn't.
It is based on the principles such as the Roman Republic and others, but contrary to what most may chose to believe, the founding fathers held mainly deistic views practiced moreover faiths those based on freemasonry (Which I was once) tenets rather than to Christianity.

Here is an article explaining this perhaps better than I can.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm


Bill Glasheen wrote:
The good news is that the idiocy leads to entertaining lawsuits such as the 1997 Seinfeld episode incident and entertaining programs such as Southpark.


Meta: Huh? I'm afraid you've lost me.


Bill Glasheen wrote:
Merry Hanuka, brother! Light the organic Kwanza tree, and may Allah bless the Winter Solstice without any animals being harmed in the process! :x-mas:
- Bill


Meta:
"Organic Kwanza tree!!!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

With extra Tofu!
hehehe..
:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:09 pm 
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cxt wrote:
Meta

The USA is not and has never been Iran.


No foolin'?!


cxt wrote:
What we are is an overwhelming Christian nation that is getting very tired of "tolerance" for everyone BUT Christians being mandated by the State.



Meta: "We"?

Consider this:
1. It's on our money
2. It's in our schools
3. The U.S. Government gives all major Christian holidays off for observance.
4. There's a Bible allowed in just about every Hotel room.
5.The media popularizes it.
6. The President condones and promotes it.
7. The Government doesn't tax it.
8. Many Senators bow to it's pressure.
9. It's in our Legal system
10.The Armed Forces train special soldiers to support it.
==Etcetera, Etcetera.

I'd say the argument that Christians are being "Persecuted" in this country is fairly weak.

cxt wrote:
I would challenge you to see what what would happen if Wal-Mart tried to prevent its employees from using greeting from other religions.
Only no-one ever does that--only Christians are barred.


I'm not certain I understand what you mean.
Do you mean, what if Wall-mart made a policy which prohibits someone from saying "Merry Christmas" to customers?
If so, then What would happen if an employee broke that rule?
They would be subject to termination. And Wal-mart would be justified.
Religion has no legal right to exist in the secular workplace.
Just as you can be fired for proselytizing the Gospel, or Allah, or the Devil, or Atheism.
But strangely enough, the Law does seem to agree that Christian organizations (Such as Ministries and Support) can discriminate with respect to hiring practices bases on one's faith.
Neat, Huh?

cxt wrote:
In this case its a business that is excluding--forbidding people in fact to use a traditional holiday greeting.
And that's wrong.


I'm not sure where in that article I saw where Wal-mart was barring employee from saying "Merry-Christmas" but I could be wrong.
In any case, you may think it's wrong, but the law says otherwise.

cxt wrote:
People have every right to take their business where-ever they want--its called "market forces."
Wal-Mart does not like it?


Meta: Newsflash: Wal-Mart is the largest retail company on earth. They do what they like...they don't care.

cxt wrote:
Tough--you can treat your customers however you wish--but there is no law foreign them to shop there.


Meta: Not at present.
8O

cxt wrote:
Its also kind of funny to hear ANYONE claim that folks are acting as a "bully" to Wal-Mart--a company infamous for its own bulling and high pressure business tactics.
Perhaps its just Karma catching up with them.


Meta:
It call 'em as I see 'em.
Wallmart is the anti-Christ as far as I am concerned, that is, If I believed there actually *was* an anti-Christ.

cxt wrote:
Its also less than rational to conflate people wanting to be able to say "merry Christmas" with people wanting to "burn heretics."


Meta: Forgive me.
I thought I was being sardonic.
:roll:

:P


Lastly,
From the article

(schnip)
"It is insulting that Wal-Mart has chosen to ignore the reason for the season," Otterstad said. "Taking the word 'Christmas' out of the holiday implies there's something sinful about it. ... This is a part of our culture."
(end schnip)

I find this a highly ironic statement, considering that the origins of Christmas aren't even Christian at all, they're Pagan

Allow me to rephrase that paragraph, so It makes sense:

"It is wonderful that Wal-Mart has chosen logic over zealous ignorance to ignore the reason for the season," Ottershank said. "Taking the word 'Christmas' out of the holiday implies there's something sinful about it, which as we know, worshipping nature spirits, having drunken orgies over an alter stained with goat's blood, and eating until we vomit is perfectly pure and natural ... This is a part of our pagan culture."

Muahahah!
:twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:33 pm 
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Meta

Perhaps I mis-understood.

Thought that the context here was that several major stores made it policy ie forbid their employees from using "merry christmas."

Actually the following is exatly what I am talking about.

-Its been on "our" money since its inception-why should it not be?

-Its no longer "in" our schools, multicultism has replaced it in most schools--schools that have no problem listing the other holidays of other relgions--but have now largely cast chistmas as "winter break."

-The US Government and various labor laws allow people to take off ANY relgious holiday.

-What bibles being in hotel rooms mean--other than the Gidions PAID to pu them there.
If a muslim group wanted to pay for the Koran to be placed there the Governement would not and could not stop them.

-The media is overwhelmling secular--they do not treat christian topics with any degree of respect or much positive coverage.
They do however insist on tolerence and respect for pretty much any other relgion.
Heck, it took Fox news for the issue to get any press at all.
I see the media as being hostile to chistians.

-The president is a christain--as are most citizens--so that should not come as any shock.
But he does NOT "condone" limtis on the free practice of anyones relgion.
Including his own.

-The Gov does not tax any legit relgion.

-Many Senators "bow" to all kinds of pressure--whats your point?

-Our legal system may have people "swear in" in a relgious text approtpate the to person involved.
It may be based upon Judo/Christain ethics--but the legal system is almost utterly secular.

-The Armed forces train "special" troops in many relgions.

So I don't quite know what your getting at?

I see your own attitude as partially the problem.

Case in point--your right 2000 or so years ago the Christains included a pagen "holiday" as part of the worships of Jesus.

We can quibble over exactly how long "christains" have used christmas and for how long--but there is no rational arguement that runs counter to it being a Christain tradition of VERY long standing.

And of great importance to many christians as well.

And yet you try and cast christmas as being somehow "wrong" because 2000 years ago it was something "else."

That's neither logically nor rational. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:06 pm 
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Meta wrote:

Bill Glasheen wrote:

The good news is that the idiocy leads to entertaining lawsuits such as the 1997 Seinfeld episode incident and entertaining programs such as Southpark.
Huh? I'm afraid you've lost me.

Southpark is Southpark. If you've never seen it, you just wouldn't understand.

Image

The Seinfeld episode...

The episode in question is like this. Jerry meets a woman he really likes. He starts to develop a relationship with her, but never got her name. The longer it goes on, the closer he gets to this wonderful woman, but the more stressed he gets about the fact that he doesn't yet know her name. And the longer it goes on, the more he knows he can't ask because that would be insulting. Something like "Hi, you were wonderful last night. What's your name again??" 8O

Jerry asks around. All he can find out from her is that her name rhymes with a body part. She jokes about it, and says people used to tease her about it as a kid. But Jerry just can't figure out a common woman's name that would rhyme with an embarassing body part.

Then one day the woman figures out that Jerry doesn't know her name. She asks him what it is, and Jerry comes up with all kinds of lame names that rhyme with body parts. Busted! So she gets angry, and literally walks out of his life.

As she's walking down the street outside, Jerry suddenly has an epiphany. He opens the upstairs window, and shouts out De-looorisss!!! End of episode.

Next day, the guys are laughing about the episode around the water cooler. This one guy's secretary listens in, and says she doesn't understand. The guys say "The body part in question rhymes with Deloris, and it's an embarassing body part." She still doesn't get it. So one of the guys goes into his office, finds a dictionary, opens it up to the right page, puts a sticky under the word, and hands the dictionary to her.

The woman gets offended. She reports him to Human Resources. HR fires him.

The guy sues the company for their actions. In the trial, the plaintiff's attourney plays the Seinfeld episode in court to the jury. The jury cannot contain themselves watching it. They deliberate for about half an hour, and award him $25 milion for the company firing him without either just cause or due process.

At the end of the day, HR doesn't really give a schit about anything but money. They enforce these draconian measures because individuals sue them for an environment which enables discrimination and sexual harassment. So HR imposes these measures and cracks the Nazi whip to keep the lawsuits at bay. That's all well and good until you give the accuser more rights than the accused, and don't give the accused due process. So the only message HR gets at the end of the day is a financial one.

It just highlights the idiocy in our society - on many levels.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 pm 
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Your country? mmm. I was born here and I served in the military, so I guess that makes it my country also. The country was founded on Judeo-christian values system. In addition could you show me where in the constitution where it explicitly states that there should be a seperation of church and state?


Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the freedom of press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. (Amendment 1,The Constitution of the United States.)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:29 am 
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cxt wrote:
Meta

-Its been on "our" money since its inception-why should it not be?


Meta: Because U.S. Currency represents, was created by, and is a device controlled by the Federal Government.

What part of "Separation of Church and State" do people not understand?
(Of course, the Masonic references on most denominations these days also needs to go.)

Americans would DEFINITELY have an issue if the money said " In Zeus we trust."

cxt wrote:
-Its no longer "in" our schools, multicultism has replaced it in most schools--schools that have no problem listing the other holidays of other religions--but have now largely cast Christmas as "winter break."


Meta: It's not in our schools, you say?
Hmmm... I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the Republic, for which it stands, one, nation, under GOD, with liberty, and justice for some.....er, I mean, All....

cxt wrote:
-The US Government and various labor laws allow people to take off ANY religious holiday.


Right, except the Government allows specific ones, which happen to be Christian, hence, a show a preference for one religion over others.
I ask again:

What part of "Separation of Church and State" do people not understand?
[/quote]

-What bibles being in hotel rooms mean--other than the Gidions PAID to pu them there.
If a Muslim group wanted to pay for the Koran to be placed there the Government would not and could not stop them.
[/quote]

Are you serious?
Check out a certain books these days on Islam, or Maoism, or other "subversive" topics, and you'll have the F.B.I. on you quicker than you can say: "Illegal wiretap." You think that any Muslim group would dare try that now? No, rather my point is that it is considered "Allowable."
How is it that we never see anything *other* than a Bible in Hotel rooms?
Is it merely because no one else has tried? Leave us not be naive here.

cxt wrote:
-The media is overwhelming secular--they do not treat Christian topic with any degree of respect or much positive coverage.Heck, it took Fox news for the issue to get any press at all.
I see the media as being hostile to Christians.


Meta: I think you have a valid point.
But truth be told, I think the media really can go either way;
Whoever the viewer ship, and therefore sponsor money goes, so do they.

cxt wrote:
-The president is a Christian--as are most citizens--so that should not come as any shock.
But he does NOT "condone" the free practice of anyone's religion.


Meta: But you see, he does.
When he invokes God's name, he is condoning a particular brand of faith. When he says things like, "God bless you." He is condoning a a particular brand of faith. This action, besides promoting a particular faith (Again, defying S.O.C.A.S.) Bush has repeatedly stated he was against certain issues BECAUSE they were contrary to his faith!!!
WTF!!!????
And you are right again, in that Christianity is the most populous faith in America. Next on the list, (by whopping minority) is Secularism. And Bush knows this fact.
I could of course speculate, that if the majority of Americans were voodoo worshipers, you bet that Bush'd he saying "M'bishtu, destroyer of souls bless you, and Boogie-Booga-Booga!!!"

Christianity appears to be growing in America every year. This should make every American very, very, very, afraid.
8O

cxt wrote:
-The Gov does not tax any legit religion.


Meta: Right. So Governments don't usually tax something that they are persecuting.
(This was related as a rebuttal to your argument that Christians were not being tolerated.)

cxt wrote:
-Many Senators "bow" to all kinds of pressure--whats your point?


Meta: It could be argued that the Religious political right wing is the strongest of the folks that apply the "pressure" on capitol hill.

cxt wrote:
-Our legal system may have people "swear in" in a religious text approtpate the to person involved.
It may be based upon Judo/Christain ethics--but the legal system is almost utterly secular.



Meta:
Our legal system is not based upon the ten commandments. (Which historically is a myth, the 10 commandments are actually based on Hammurabi's laws, as it much of so called "Biblical History" )
Our legal system is based upon Ancient Roman and Greek law. Habeas Corpus, anyone?
But yet as part our current proceedings, an "oath" (previously given to GOD on a bible, was given.)


cxt wrote:
-The Armed forces train "special" troops in many religions.


Meta: The fact that they trained them at all is clearly U.S. Funded religion, and clearly a violation of Church and State.

cxt wrote:
What I mean is that no-one tells Muslims that they can't give a Muslim greeting nor do the force people to say "merry Christmas--they force people NOT to say it--and those folks are Christians


Yes, they do force people to say it.
it's called a "Corporate Policy." And if they don't like the policy, they can get another job. Or, as a consumer, shop elsewhere.
Welcome to America.

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