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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:33 am 
Dead is Dead.

Who gives a rats ass,a maggot got to eat too.

The only folk who might be offended by this might be the immediate family. Grieving and all that. Other wise, my look at is "****** it Up Princes", everything dies.

If your traumatized by these images you probably can't handle a verbal assault either. People die, work towards preventing your own.

JMHO, Don't ban the messenger. :)

Laird


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:41 am 
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Meta:It could be argued that in an event of cold blooded murder, genocide, and mass destruction of life, there exists inherently no concept of dignity, respect, or honor.


thats the point isnt it ? , no such respect exists , why should we dipserse it , are the masses so jaded they cant mourn the event without being voyuers or experiencing the trauma ?

If this is true of the American (or world) population in General then I say nuke em all there not worth saving .


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:14 am 
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For the record:(and so my point isn't lost on anyone :wink: )

Not once have I said I want to see mangled maggot eaten bodies. It's not pleasant at all.

Truth be told a dead body to me isn't really shocking. Probably because I've seen hundreds of them. But for me most of my dead body experiences are with people who have struggled with an illness and it was time there time.

I feelno pity for them at all.

It's the ones left behind in greif I feelfor. There are few things more sad that to watch a wife son ect. in such emotional pain.

Because I've seen this loss first hand so often, I think that the death of a soldier, or whatever death that happens prematurely deserves at the very least there names mentioned.

What about a daily moment of silence? What about inturupting a primetime TV show to let folks know?

Nahhh that would be to inconvenient right? And besides who watches the news?

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:13 am 
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benzocaine wrote:
For the record:(and so my point isn't lost on anyone :wink: )

Not once have I said I want to see mangled maggot eaten bodies. It's not pleasant at all.

Truth be told a dead body to me isn't really shocking. Probably because I've seen hundreds of them.


The problem is that, in general, we as a people do not see or know what a dead body really looks like. Most people only experience dead bodies at funerals, where death has been cleansed by the mortician, or on the various "TV crime shows", where death has been "cleansed" by the false appearance of the "realistic" fake used in the latest autopsy scene. Both of those situations are more than just bearable, they're not the blunt reality of death. Reality is that a dead body is not pretty even if it isn't at a point of decomposition where it is "mangled and maggot eaten". Most people alive in the western world have not had to face or deal with the realities of a dead body and if they see that reality it truly is shocking to them. After seeing dead bodies (not counting the doctors and scientists for whom this is part of their lives and livelihood), most folks are either shocked or they suppress the reality mentally or they get PTSD (depending on the situation where they see death) or some combination of them all...

Of course, this is all based on a dead body that has been dead for a while... not right at the instant of death when the body is still basically the same as it was mere seconds or minutes before. Some of the video games available make the violent mangled instant of death very realistic and some complain that it allows people to trivialize actual death by violent means. Even so, I wonder if those players/people would react in shock after seeing a body that was dead for a few hours... the feel, the smell, the look...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:39 am 
Quote:
Reality is that a dead body is not pretty even if it isn't at a point of decomposition where it is "mangled and maggot eaten". Most people alive in the western world have not had to face or deal with the realities of a dead body and if they see that reality it truly is shocking to them.


this is a problem ?

Ive seen dead bodys both natural and when they`ve been torn apart in the flesh and not the nine o clock news .... I remember a particular occassion when i saw a non dead relative who had his jaw and face blown of with a .243 , he lived but it was worse gore than most of the images youd put on tv .

why do you folks need to experience these things even via tv ?

whats to be gained ?

I think your commenting on something other than the need for your general population to be shocked ...

whats really missing ?

I really dont beleive people would be better of for seeing these things .

Heck If I slaughtered a animal and harvested it`s meat , most of the people reading ths would squirm and not cope , and if they didnt know they`d enjoy the meal

Is that the point are too many living in fantasy land where everything is wrapped in plastic ....


or is it that theres a trivialising of death and loss , and if so , is shock the answer ?

wont that just contribute more ?

more questions than answers ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:26 am 
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Stryke wrote:
Quote:
thats the point isnt it ? , no such respect exists , why should we dipserse it , are the masses so jaded they cant mourn the event without being voyuers or experiencing the trauma ?


Meta: I have always felt that human beings, individually, a from an overwhelming part, inherently good, kind, warm and true.
However, It is this amazing the phenomenon by which groups of humans become "people", then things can go massively wrong.

Stryke wrote:
If this is true of the American (or world) population in General then I say nuke em all there not worth saving .


Meta: I like to think that as long as there is one shred of goodness in the world there is always hope.
I have to believe that every single one of us cares about our fellow man, unless our minds and hearts are poisoned. All humans need to do either great good or great evil is passion.
So I ask myself, are we indeed losing our passion, and thereby compassion?

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There's a bit of Metablade in all of us.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:37 am 
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Stryke wrote:

Is that the point are too many living in fantasy land where everything is wrapped in plastic ....

--or is it that theres a trivialising of death and loss , and if so , is shock the answer ?

wont that just contribute more ?


Meta:
Answer: Yes,... Yes,...and ....I don't know the answer.
:(

All I know, is that the lines between reality and non-reality are possibly being blurred.

In the end, I want people to see and deal with, at least on a visceral level, the consequences of *our* (meaning Humans not just American's) actions, and by at the very least, this small way, own those actions, or .....in-actions.

...Not just turn the channel.

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There's a bit of Metablade in all of us.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:54 am 
Quote:
are we indeed losing our passion, and thereby compassion?


Amen !! :wink: 8) :lol:

You couldnt of put it bettter

the Sheeple are the majority it seems


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 Post subject: Who am I, then?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:34 pm 
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If I am not a sheeple am I the sheepdog or the wolf?

That's all that matters in the end isn't it? A good sheepdog doesn't wish the sheep weren't sheep. They show compassion and do their best to make the world a better place (for the sheep under their watch) by helping them to avoid pitfalls where possible and limiting their exposure to predators and predation.

Or am I the wolf? One who lives outside the society and preys upon the sheep to meet my needs and mine alone.

Or do you and I play different roles...?

(Note - I'm speaking in allegory - not personally to anyone)

If I am the sheepdog do I think that endless exposure to the "realities" of things like war, disasters and violent crime? Will these efforts suddenly raise the sheep to a level of compassion heretofore unknown by all sheep kind? So elevated that they now become, each one alone, a great warrior for social justice? Or will we simply continue to send relief checks that relieve our conscience more than the disaster?

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 Post subject: Re: Who am I, then?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Dana Sheets wrote:
If I am not a sheeple am I the sheepdog or the wolf?


Meta: I find it most fascinating that when "people" talk about "people" or "The masses" or "sheeple" or those "___Fill in the blanks";
They almost unanimously exclude themselves from that category, as if they were somehow, by nature of discovery, immune.

An example is:
Though I may know wrong from right, that alone in itself does not make me either.
It is said that even the most pious or forthright person can fall into lesser states at any given moment.
Having special knowledge or status guarantees no one a shield from the aspects of those negative actions.

I admit that I often suffer from this concept as much as anyone.

We can fall from the whichever path we have chosen at any given moment, and no one is immune.
Perhaps that only though action, can that action be defined.

Lao Tzu once wrote:
Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love.

_________________
There's a bit of Metablade in all of us.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:05 am 
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Stryke wrote:
this is a problem ?


I didn't say it was a problem, just that it was the way things are...

Quote:
Ive seen dead bodys both natural and when they`ve been torn apart in the flesh and not the nine o clock news .... I remember a particular occassion when i saw a non dead relative who had his jaw and face blown of with a .243 , he lived but it was worse gore than most of the images youd put on tv .


I wasn't trying to get into any "I've seen plenty of gore and you haven't seen as much" debate. It's irrelevant to the discussion. My point was that the majority of people have only seen death in a sanitized form... and I certainly don't count the members of these forums as "the majority of the people" with the unique experiences that the folks here have had.

Quote:
why do you folks need to experience these things even via tv ?

whats to be gained ?

I think your commenting on something other than the need for your general population to be shocked ...

whats really missing ?

I really dont beleive people would be better of for seeing these things .


I don't think it is necessary for everyone to see it either, but it might help some people understand more about the reality of the world around them.

Quote:
Heck If I slaughtered a animal and harvested it`s meat , most of the people reading ths would squirm and not cope , and if they didnt know they`d enjoy the meal


That does remind me of an instance you may find amusing... including one of those people who didn't understand the realities of the world around them...

One year we sat down to dinner with a group and the main course was, ummmm... some "harvested and home butchered" meat. One young woman (who is no longer clueless) asked me for some more "meat juice" when I was filling her plate. I replied saying "more blood is a good way to stop anemia for women." She argued passionately that it was NOT blood... it was "meat juice!" After I regained my composure and most of the table caught their breath from uncontrollable laughter, I (with ample help from others... men and women alike) explained what "meat juice" really is! The revelation was a shock to the young woman, but she not only continued her meal, she had seconds and thirds!

Quote:
Is that the point are too many living in fantasy land where everything is wrapped in plastic ....


The short answer is... yes.


Quote:
or is it that theres a trivialising of death and loss , and if so , is shock the answer ?

wont that just contribute more ?


I must concur with metablade's response of:

"yes, yes... I don't know."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:00 am 
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I wasn't trying to get into any "I've seen plenty of gore and you haven't seen as much" debate. It's irrelevant to the discussion.


Sorry Panther not meant as a pissing contest , my point is Ive seen some nasty crap and I dont beleive it made me a better person , and I dont beleive the general population seeing such things will improve them either .

My theory is the gore will never be real enough on tv and even if it is will just lead to desensitisation .

I beleive what we need to concentrate on is the vistims lifes , put a human face on the violence , show the mourning familys before the mutilated vicitm , show what societys lost , lets try to reconnect rather than sensationalise .... no ooh arrr thats sure a banged up peice o flesh , we really need to kick some iraqi asses now ....

actually how about some profiles on the Iraqi (innocent) victims ... maybe there human too , theres a great propoganda oppurtunity for both sides ....

All I see is silly news storys about how the US is paying for a Iraqi child having some operation that`ll save there life ..... lots of feel good points there

and I read in the paper how american citizens come up short on there medical coverage , and watch the obviously mentally ill homeless folks wander the streets unhelped ....

forgive me but i dont understand the system .....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:59 pm 
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This is pretty good:

http://hotzone.yahoo.com/

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