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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:26 pm 
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Canada should tone it down: Ruggiero
Last Updated: Tue Feb 14 09:35:39 EST 2006
CBC Sports

The way the Canadian women's hockey team has been racking up goals at the Torino Olympics has some hockey players and fans shaking their heads.

In their first matchup of the Winter Games, Canada battered the Italian women 16-0. Not more than 24 hours later, they put 12 pucks past the Russians.

Some critics have said the Canadian women lack class, while others hold the view that the defending Olympic champions went to Turin, Italy, to play their best, and that's just what they'll do.

United States defenceman and three-time Olympian Angela Ruggiero says Team Canada should have toned down their game against Italy.

"I'm upset that Canada has been running up the score, especially against the host nation," Ruggiero told Sports Illustrated's website on Monday. "There was no need for that. They're trying to pad their stats ... Canada is running up the score for whatever reasons – personal, short-term."

Canada outscored its opposition 28-0 as of Sunday, while the rival Americans have outscored their opponents 11-0.

In this tournament, tiebreakers are decided first by the deadlocked teams' record against each other and then by goal differential. That differential can determine which team has home-ice advantage in the medal round.

Women's hockey could be on thin ice going into its third Olympics because no other nation has been able to challenge the sport's powerhouses – Canada and the U.S.

Unless the Swedes or Finns really ramp up their contingents, the Americans and Canadians will yet again battle for the gold medal. For all the other countries, the Olympics are a challenge for bronze at best.

"It does hurt our sport when one team is so dominant," said the 26-year-old Ruggiero, regarded as one of the world's top blue-liners. "Beating Russia 12-0 after the Italy game, that doesn't help. If Italy had any hopes, or if their federation was thinking of helping women's hockey, well, this probably shattered them after the first game.

"They'll say, 'How are we ever going to beat those guys?' If you don't have a shot of ever getting there, why not invest in another sport?"

Despite the widespread criticism, Team Canada head coach Melody Davidson says they have to play their best no matter the circumstances.

"Later on, you don't want to look back and think, 'If we had scored one more goal it would have made a difference,'" Davidson said.

"Regardless of the score, this is the Olympics," Davidson said after Sunday's win. "These girls have worked hard to be here and we would take things away from our team, our opponents and everybody involved if we didn't compete as hard as we could, and if we didn't do everything we could to put us where we want to be."

One Canadian hockey fan posted her support for the goal tally on CBC's Torino message board.

"Canada's women played their game and I am glad they did not slack off or play keep away the entire time. The Canadian women need to be prepared to meet the tougher teams later in the tournament and we all know they would like that home-ice advantage in the final game, which due to the rules is only achievable by gaining as many goals as possible."

The Canadian women will face Sweden Tuesday afternoon in Turin (CBC, 9:30 a.m. EST).

********


What do you think?

Should the Canadians hold back because they have better skills?

Or is it up to opposing teams to bring their game up to snuff?

What about other sports where other countries dominate? Should their athletes hold back?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:38 pm 
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Mary S wrote:
Should the Canadians hold back because they have better skills?


Since they actually stand something to gain from having more goals I think it's reasonable. At the same time, it would be rude to use it as an opportunity to showboat and mock the other team. But if they just playing hard the way they normally do, it seems fine to me.

Quote:
What about other sports where other countries dominate? Should their athletes hold back?


If it's a sport where you can set records then don't hold back, because the records are as important as who wins, for many people. I'm not sure if there are any sports that are directly adversarial and have records that anybody cares about, however.

If there's no benefit to running up the score and no records that anybody cares about, I think it's good to show a little sportsmanship and bring it down a couple notches so both the other team and the spectators get a more interesting game to watch.

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 Post subject: Go big or go home.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:19 pm 
I'd be offended by competing against a team or an individual who only brought their b game to the table because they thought I sucked.

No better yardstick for developing teams than to go head to head against top teams.

Canada is really weak in Rugby , but we will not get better playing other crap teams. We must challenge our selves as athletes if we wish to improve. The more our lads line up against Wallibies, All blacks, etc. the more they will improve. For the record it's not unusual for some of these top nations to run up some outrageous scores against b and c level teams. The low ranked teams still benifit from the experience.

Think how degrading it would be to run the hundred against someone , loose to them and then realize they were not even go all out to save you face. It's the ultimate insult in sports not to give the competion your all.. If you deliberately give them your b game your saying you don't belong in the same competion ...now thats rude!

Remember the first dream team, fans were upset when the Americans didn't run up huge leads. Spectators and athletes expect to experience the worlds best, competion at it's higest level,not some half baked replica.

Here's a thought. How does one improve at sparring if they don't get pushed past their ability from time to time?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:01 am 
I say kick there ass ... I agree it`s a bigger insult to go easy .

It`s actually very hard to hold mental focus when that far ahead , it`s good training in concentration .

theres been a few examples In rugby where games have been called before they broke 100 points , but it`s pretty well a mockery already by then , and that doesnt always happen either .

****** it up , learn , train harder or go back to a lower league if it offends .


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 Post subject: Re: Go big or go home.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:04 am 
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Cartmen wrote:
Canada is really weak in Rugby , but we will not get better playing other crap teams.


I'm not suggesting anyone play pathetically. In that case it would be doing a disservice to the other team. But a team that is so vastly superior can tone their game down to a level where they're, say, only outscoring their opponents 10-1 rather than 28-0 without it being an insult I think.

Quote:
Here's a thought. How does one improve at sparring if they don't get pushed past their ability from time to time?


But by the same token, as a dan rank you wouldn't totally dominate a white belt, would you? The white belt will just be ovewhelmed and won't learn much of anything, and may pick up some bad habits if you do it often enough.

I definitely agree that competing against people better than you is a great way to learn (I usually prefer to lose than win because it tells me I'm probably learning more). But honestly, if I try to take Kobe Bryant on in one on one, I'm not really going to learn much (though I'll have a good time).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:17 am 
Quote:
But by the same token, as a dan rank you wouldn't totally dominate a white belt, would you? The white belt will just be ovewhelmed and won't learn much of anything, and may pick up some bad habits if you do it often enough.


If they were stupid enough to compete against me in an open division , and I outclassed them incredibly , I`d dominate them and if they still tried to fight I`d take them out . It would be an afront to do anything less .

having said that white belts can kick sandans asses in Uechi competitions Ive seen it , this is a flawed argument .



Quote:
Originally posted by Cartmen
Canada is really weak in Rugby , but we will not get better playing other crap teams.


actually Canada is improving a lot amoungst the second teir sides , quite an acheivement , and theres sevens side is quite good , they have beaten fiji before (Fiji are maybe the greatest sevens team in the history of sevens Rugby ) . It`s all to do with th competition .

Quote:
I'm not suggesting anyone play pathetically. In that case it would be doing a disservice to the other team. But a team that is so vastly superior can tone their game down to a level where they're, say, only outscoring their opponents 10-1 rather than 28-0 without it being an insult I think.


your insulting the opposition , and doing a diservice to yourself , a proffessional and a competitor has personal standards , mentally and physically . It is indeed an insult , it`s akin to patting you on the head and saying good on ya for trying little fella .

If you go easy how will they ever know there level , and if anything they do well becuase of skill or complacency , how do the test there positive attributes and find there weaknesses .

Any serious competitor would be sickened at the though of such a farce ....

it would be better to end the game at half time , than play a charade .


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:29 am 
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Part of being a good winner is accepting victory graciously.

By the same token, being a good loser is accepting defeat graciously.

Being a good sport is ... take your time ....

I heard/read/saw no complaints from any of the team members for Italy, Russia or Sweden. In fact I commend those athletes who played against Canada.

Why would world class athletes NOT bring their "A" game? Isn't that what the Olympics are about? Do superior competitors lower themselves or do inferior competitors have to raise themselves up?

Quote:
But by the same token, as a dan rank you wouldn't totally dominate a white belt, would you?


No but it's not the same thing. The athletes who compete at the Olympics are not "white belts" by any stretch of the imagination.

I also find it insulting for a fellow athlete to criticize another.
Can you imagine your student doing that a tournament or to a guest at your dojo?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not suggesting anyone play pathetically. In that case it would be doing a disservice to the other team. But a team that is so vastly superior can tone their game down to a level where they're, say, only outscoring their opponents 10-1 rather than 28-0 without it being an insult I think.


Love the rugby references... I played 11 competitive years in the US (still pick up the ball now and again)... even made the territorial side a couple times....

I coached a Women's rugby team in the US that was consistantly at Nationals and very competitive. Our B-Side would rival several outher US first side teams. While we never took it easy on anyone, there were times we completely overmatched our opposition. And honestly, some of those games caused more problems down the road... centers running thru tackles (because they could) instead of passing... then when they went agains a better side they would try to run thru and get swallowed up.

I am not saying to take it easy here, especially because home-field is determined by score differential, but you have to be aware of the bad habits that can come from playing a weaker side.

One of the thing I would have the team do when playing a weaker team is to let them win their ball to play defense.

In Uechi, if I am fighting a much weaker opponent, once I have command, I do not need to humiliate them to win my match.

Cheers & Up Rugby,
Louis


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:48 am 
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I thought the topic was advice about bad gas and what to do with it...then I opened it,.....and AW NUTS!!!!

:bad-words:




:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:31 pm 
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Guess the point is moot (haha!!!) now in any event - Canada will be playing Sweden for the gold - bet those Swedes didn't hold back!!!

They dropped the US 3-2 on a shoot out.

Way to go girls!!! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:15 pm 
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Too bad about the US women... :(

The rules are the rules. If you have a tie, the score differential comes into play for "home court advantage." So that means you need to maximize the differential. The rules determine the behavior.

In college basketball on the other hand, a decent score differential generally means you bring players off the bench. And why? Because you want all your players well rested so nobody gets injured. And because you want all your players to have playing time for the day your top player goes down and someone else needs to step up. So... The rules determine the behavior.

Do the poor widdle giwls on de odder team not wike it because dey got dere poor widdle booties kicked? Tough luck, sissies! Stop playing like girls, and start playing up to the level of the Canadians. Otherwise, prepare to be steamrolled.

Give 'em hell, Canucks! 8)

- Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:35 pm 
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Quote:
Do the poor widdle giwls on de odder team not wike it because dey got dere poor widdle booties kicked?


Er... could you translate that from Virginian please??? :D

Seriously tho ... the girls (and not just the Canadians) have all played great hockey!!! For the most part - great sportsmanship (i.e no stomping on flags) I say leave the trash-talking to others and prove yourself on the ice.

The female refs (I LOVE the fact there are female refs) have been very good.

It's a little known fact that the Canadians are the ONLY team who have a female coach.

I say play on, play as hard as you can - this is your moment!!! :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:22 pm 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
Tough luck, sissies! Stop playing like girls, and start playing up to the level of the Canadians.
- Bill


Meta:
And the difference is?
BOOM! HE SCORES!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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