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You have to keep a close eye on the Aztlan bunch.

Their motto used to be "for the race everything, for those not of the race nothing."

Used to be on their website--don't know if it still is.

In any case sounds a little to much like Hitler in the 30's to suit me.

They still use that motto, I am sorry to say.
It should be noted that they appear to be a fringe group, and certainly do not represent the Mexican American and Latino majority in thought or actions by any stretch, but as you mentioned Germany in the 1930s, even a small group can become out of control if not watched closely.

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There's a bit of Metablade in all of us.

It's amazing how a small group can turn into a large group...
and it's disheartening what happens when you get any group of idiots acting in unison...

If they paid taxes then maybe it would support them.

But they dont. So i say they should go back.




Though the excuse "Their stealing our jobs" is retarded. They are willing to do alot more for alot less.

Exactly! The problem is the "alot less" is often below the Federally mandated minimum wage. So, in a way, they are taking jobs from Americans. I'm sure some of these places would go out of business or have to (gasp) downsize to meet the legal wage limit.

The point is, there is no way of knowing that the illegals are "taking jobs Americans don't want" when no American in his/her right mind would put up with getting less that the minimum wage.

chewy

Illegal immigrants with illegally underpaid jobs are working for a citizen willing to pay them. Hard to only blame demand when supply is readily available. It's not illegal immigrants screwing Americans, it's Americans screwing Americans.

No arguements with that here!

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There's a bit of Metablade in all of us.

"The point is, there is no way of knowing that the illegals are "taking jobs Americans don't want" when no American in his/her right mind would put up with getting less that the minimum wage."

Well, if Americans don't want less than minimum, then those are jobs that Americans don't want, right? We do have Americans unemployed and looking for work but they're not rushing to this work. And if some of the businesses fold, who does that help?

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--Ian

In this case, I feel the issue is fair wages.
More Americans would probably work in a field if they felt that they were going to be given at least an equitable deal.
True, prices would go up, but so will quality and standards of living.
If overseas products were reduced in lieu of regionalized capitalization, you would be able to see more of a result in this.
Look at Japan's economy for example.
True they import many products as many other countries, but consumers also are in the habit of purchasing locally their home-manufactured products.
We need less globalization and more support of "villageization."

Greed may be good for the short term, but it always catches up with us.

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There's a bit of Metablade in all of us.

Yes and no. What happens when you interfere with the market and force wages that the market doesn't support? There's a balance between protecting the little guy and supporting fairness, and ending up like france, as Bill pointed out.

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--Ian

One thing that is being forgotten is the fact that these undoccumented workers are not having social security withdrawn, state, or federal income taxes. Maybee they pay state sales tax.

So basically they pay NOTHING back into the system while many use the local E.D. as a walk in clinic (and default on payment), send their bambinos to public schools, and make anchor babies so they can ****** up our welfare.

Screw that.

Not forgotten at all. Ask someone who works in one of the remaining ER's left after many in SoCal closed due to the pressures. The question is, do you want to encourage illegal immigration by helping them move to taxable guest worker status, or do you want to continue with expensive and ultimately unsuccessful interdiction strategies or advise that we stop helping sick people or children unless they can prove residency?

Insert your easy fix here: ______

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--Ian

Certainly there is no easy fix.

But treating illegals with kid gloves as we have for all this time isn't helping either.

I don't believe rewarding illegals with doccumentation is a good answer. It sends the wrong message.

I say beef up the border, and severely punish those who hire illegals. As time goes on and we have less and less illegals, the ED problem might take care of itself... or not

But caving in to these protestors is just plain weak on our behalf IMHO.

How are you going to punish large corporations?

They run the country, they dish out the punishment.

WHy do you think Rorian got away with his stupid gaurd pass?

Here's the downside to beefing up our borders:

1) costs a lot.
2) cheap labor in USA diminished (tho remaining labor more taxable--sort of; the dirt poor pay few taxes anyway)
3) more immigrants will die in more hazardous treks in more isolated areas, or in overheated vans
4) might not work that well. Ref: the drug war.

Again I wonder what would happen if we could stimulate economic development in northern mexico. When there is demand, there will be supply. Just as with drugs. I'm not qualified to say how best that should be accomplished, but as a parallel problem, the NEJM reported within the last year that treating northern mexico's TB with them would cost less than just treating TB in our country, because they're the #1 source of our TB. I've got someone right now who's worsening after 4months in the hospital and getting everything thrown at his illness -- bill's about half a million bucks I bet now. Will check.

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--Ian