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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:51 pm 
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The purpose of this forum and VSD forum was to provide a balanced presentation to our viewers/readers - students/teachers regarding the very complex subjects being discussed on Van's and Bill's popular forums.

I can safely say that there are lots of bad guys (BG) out there that wish to rob, rape, injure and even kill other Good Guys (GG) and other BGs.

As I see it, the GGs job is to:

1. avoid the BGs if possible.
2. when avoidance is not possible, assess your situation with a plan based on this assessment:
======================
a. Retreat any way possible.
b. Distance yourself while trying to defuse situation using VSD.
c. Given the opportunity, see "a".
d. When BG moves into your space, see "e".
e. When no alternative, preemptive attack until danger is over or you are dead.
======================

Van's forum deals very well with the concepts of this model, but in my estimation, more discussion should be placed on the options "a" and "b".

These are areas which I will be attempting to develop in this forum and the VSD forum. My new year's resolution is to make sure the forums retain more individual focus and content. We've scared away many of the people who are into the martial arts for reasons other than those of the major beliefs and points of view.

We have many forums and certainly there is room for different points of view.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:24 am 
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And you're already hitting your new year's resolution early!

If I only wanted to fight I wouldn't study an eastern art. That is the one thing that keeps me coming back to this style of training. I like moving meditation, I like working in concert with others to try and improve, I like being able to focus on one thing and only one thing for a period of time, and I like pushing my body to its limits.

My greatest growth from training has come from the realization that I have the ability to act on my choices and stand behind them. Why that has come from training I have no idea. But it is a nice gift.

Dana


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:06 pm 
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Amen, Dana ... what you've said speaks for me as well...

Thank you, GEM ...
Quote:
We have many forums and certainly there is room for different points of view.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:13 pm 
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Location: Gulf Coast
Sensei Mattson--
Thank you opportunity to discuss this aspect of the martial arts.
I most definitely will avoid a physical confrontation if it is safe to do so (for both myself and those with me).
Once the ego is in check, many confrontations can and should be avoided.
Respectfully,
Frank
Gulf Coast


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:32 pm 
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Quote:
in my estimation, more discussion should be placed on the options "a" and "b".


Options A and B have been the theme of my forum since its inception.

But by all means, let’s discuss it some more.

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We've scared away many of the people who are into the martial arts for reasons other than those of the major beliefs and points of view.


I don’t believe this one bit.

If you look at the blade forums, for example, there is much of the same being discussed and it has many followers.

The people who supposedly got “scared away” were never there to start with.

The forums are down because of simple “attrition” and because the majority of moderators don’t do their job at all.

You should take the forums away from the “deadwood” and search for more committed writers.

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We have many forums and certainly there is room for different points of view.


True..But it is claimed that these people with different viewpoints are “scared to post” and “scared” of the forums’ “experts” __

I find this ridiculous to an extreme. They simply have nothing coherent to contribute and are afraid to be “engaged” __

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:59 pm 
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Another example is the Italian martial arts website with discussions very much parallel to ours, yet populated by a multitude of martial artists from diverse disciplines.

And the “defensive component” of the arts is given much more “cyber time” than our page.

Just tonight I was reading the results of the 5th Italian Open championships.

The male teams in both kata and kumite strongest in international competition __ and miss Sara Battaglia, of the “Master Milano” Academy, absolutely phenomenal in prevailing over national and international kata competition.

The most complete martial artists to be found anywhere. We should be taking lessons from their attitudes on Budo.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:22 am 
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My view is that many who study martial arts are alert to danger but may also be seeking deeper meaning and purpose in their training. Many of them recognize that there are bad people out there but willing to trust that the skill to deal with them will take time and hopefully take care of itself with good guidance and support. They may also perhaps sense the greater significance, the enormous value, and potential importance that martial art study can have in their lives. The message for such people is health, positive energy, confidence, character, support, ideals, purpose and meaning.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:48 am 
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Hi Phil,

Good to hear from you.

I see any given martial art as a complex piece of machinery made up of various critical component parts.

The owner of such machinery, better study and be thoroughly familiar with all the components equally.

Quote:
Many of them recognize that there are bad people out there but willing to trust that the skill to deal with them will take time and hopefully take care of itself with good guidance and support.


This component part is critical to the student because it carries huge penalties if left to chance. It requires much in depth study under qualified, experienced combative instructors who have made a lifetime commitment to the study of street violence.

This is the reason why a fantastic traditional Uechi instructor like Gary Khoury has become certified in the Blauer method, as one example. Thus he is well equipped to tackle this component in a classroom setting.

If a student is not willing to explore this in depth, then he should forget about dealing with bad people and continue to practice for all the other wonderful reasons you enumerate.

Best to you Phil. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:40 pm 
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Hi... it is good to talk to you even if via e-exchange!

I agree and I believe what you say compliments the case. At this level, the nature of the conflict is combat, pure and simple. Any confrontation at this level is too serious to leave to chance.

Because there is no margin for error.. and for the reasons you state; complexity, need for experience and willingness to train at specialized / high levels of intensity, we are, for the majority, back to avoidance and retreat as a practical working hypothesis. ... and even for those well prepared, one should be clear, deciding to stand involves committing to a life or death decision.

Best to you Van! Phil


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:32 am 
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Hi Phil,

Good summation...something that has been the theme of my forum since its inception.

The problem is that one never knows when any altercation, as insignificant as it might seem, may morph into a combat/survival situation involving unexpected weapons and or multiple opponents.

This is why I believe it is irresponsible for any teacher to make "light" of potential defensive engagements.

Hope all is well, Phil. Don't you miss the old Hancock street Dojo days? :)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:56 am 
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Van: Indeed I do miss it! And come to think of it, there's a connection here isn't there? Your forum theme reflecting on the serious nature of battle is indicative of deep concern for others, not unlike the comeraderie, shared commitment and esprit de corps at Hancock St. There were real people there, from very different backgrounds but united in one purpose and willing to put themselves on the line. Maybe that is what we are trying to say, each in our own way. Take care Van! Phil


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:18 am 
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Phil,

What a nice, thoughtful post, thank you.

You have captured in a few, well chosen words, the wonder and mystery of some of the diamond years of our lives.

I remember how excited I was when George told me he was going to move the Academy from Columbus avenue to Hancock street.

So many unbelievable years to follow, so many events, so many battles, so many friends...and do you remember the parties? :wink:

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