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If you will forgive my intrusion on your forum Paul , again this a pointless exercise in semantics ! If some people cannot handle the emotional burden of the martial arts embrace , then they should take up ballet dancing ! Let's face it , David has said from the beginning that karate /judo etc. Is not really for everyone …some people cannot deal with the emotional demands of self discovery , whether it be martial arts , love , a challenging corporate position or whatever ; so they struggle along drowning one inch at a time , keep shifting from one system to the next finding answers , keep moving from job to job , see a shrink , a priest and on and on ! And then they dilute the "wine" with their fragility !

You want to be effective in the martial arts , you must come from solid stock emotionally and you got to be able to handle the buffeting of the mind and function with emotional intelligence !

Consider this …I took over Harry Brawley 's school in Norwood back in the late 60's ! Now I have nothing against Harry except the fact he had a tendency to tell his students that in a real fight if the opponent 'violated ' the student's sanchin he would pay a heavy price ! Whatever that meant , I don't know ! But I do know that upon taking over the dojo and calling the drop out list to try and get them back under my tutelage , I happened to get on the phone the father of a brown belt , whom I knew to have been a very good student and decent dojo 'fighter' ! I was not prepared for the verbal assault from 'daddy' ! It seems his son was set upon by two punks one night when coming out of a convenience store , and he froze without being able to raise a hand taking a pretty good beating ! The father was livid at me and Harry and George Mattson and all the rest for the great deception to his son who was now emotionally devastated …my oh my !

I also remember Peter Ventresca , a good guy , but not very emotionally mature for the martial arts ! He and his wife were inseparable , which I suppose it's okay unless it becomes a farce ! We trained together for the first world championship in Chicago in 1962 ..Peter had high expectations in spite if the fact he was a green belt and had never entered competition before in his life ..I mean in any sport ; He had no idea what it takes to be a competitor , yet he felt he had been touched by the ' magic' Uechi-Ryu wand and he was , therefore untouchable ! In his first match he hurt his foot on top of loosing badly to his opponent and spent the rest of the weekend with his foot in a bucket of ice cursing George Mattson for his misfortune !

Then His hapless wife , left all alone for the weekend , Oh my > what a terrible crime , fell down a flight of stairs getting badly bruised ! Now GEM was getting blamed for having 'pulled them apart ' and for the wife's broken hearted fall >>> in addition of the great deception of a 'lousy karate style' ! Next thing I know, Peter travels to Japan for a few weeks and 'studies' under Nishyama sensei ..then he comes back 'knighted in shotokan bliss' …opens up a dojo …even writes a book ..and keeps slinging mud at GEM and all Uechi people ..and then is out of business in a few years …Oh please…Give me a break !!

Van

To all,

My, my... This is truly an interesting discussion. It brings up a lot of my thinking/feeling about my practice in the arts. And my thinking/feeling is very rooted in my personal experiences. This is the only way I can understand in a very real way.

I disagreed that trouble only finds those who looking for it. Were this true, the peaceful among us can sit back and let the trouble makers take each other out and not worry about it. Yet, the reality is much different. Trouble found a lone black man in Jasper, Texas and literally tore him to pieces on a lonely country road. Trouble recently found a young man -- a loving son -- because he was attracted to the "wrong" sex in Laramie, Wyoming. Trouble left him battered and begging futilely for life in desert country strapped to wooden posts, his cross. Trouble finds others who will remain forever anonymous to us. Trouble is out there. Trouble is in Indonesia finding the Chinese. Trouble in is the former Yugoslavia looking for ethnic Albanians. Trouble is in the Mideast. Trouble is...

Trouble found me when I was in first grade. I refused to be the victim of trouble then and have refused ever since. I started the martial arts when I was 13, SPECIFICALLY TO BETTER GIVE TROUBLE A LITTLE BIT OF ITS OWN. I have jumped in when trouble finds those around me. I don't like nor relish fighting trouble. Perhaps, I was born to it. I can't back from trouble.

I do believe martial arts can help prepare those inclined to better deal with trouble. I don't think everybody is inclined though. Therefore, the practice of "jutsu" is not for everyone. However, I think the practice of "DO" can be rewarding for those who don't care to confront trouble. It can also be rewarding for those who do confront trouble. The practice can bring our bodies face to face with our minds and spirits. This is beneficial to many in this disembodied, mindless and spiritless age.

In the Self-Defense Realities forum, MikeD posted a quote from Loverett (a self-professed modern samurai). Loverett states since the beginning of time Man has been stiving for "dominion". I have no doubt there are such as these. There are also those who strive to live without "dominion." Yet, the latter will fight anything and anyone who threaten to take life away from themselves and their beloved. I stand with this group.

david

Yes, and I agree. By way of clarification, I'm not really talking about when bad things happen to good people, and it's only an inference on my part, not some profound truism that I'm espousing. ... although I do think there is a strong tendency (for some of us, at some point in our training) to be more than slightly curious about the effect of all this training in a real fight. (in one of the examples above a bunch of friends rush down to the Common to see a fight,... isn't there something about curiosity there?). It's just that some of us make it through this stage in tact and manage to keep practicing, hopefully including the acquisition of some wisdom along the way... best regards... phils

[This message has been edited by Phils (edited 10-15-98).]

Phil,

>>although I do think there is a strong tendency (for some of us, at some point in our training) to be more than slightly curious about the effect of all this training in a real fight. (in one of the examples above a bunch of friends rush down to the Common to see a fight,... isn't there
something about curiosity there?). It's just that some of us make it through this stage in tact and manage to keep practicing, hopefully
including the acquisition of some wisdom along the way.<<

Yes. You have a very valid insight here. It especially applies to those who got into the arts to learn to fight. There is a curiosity among some to "test" their skills out, to have "fantasies". There is the need for the "emotional maturity" that Van sensei has talked about in wielding the capability of "deadly force". This is where the "DO" hopefully applies in practice to learn more about oneself. Again the more clarity about we have about ourselves, the more clarity we can have of others. This allows one to differentiate whether the other is truly threatening our physical well being or our ego projection. A misstep on either side can be costly.

Ideally there should be a flow from "DO" to "jutsu" in our practice, the yin and the yang. I think either extreme can lead to inbalance. You can end up with a "paranoid" personality or "wishful" dreamer. Neither last long on in this world, in my opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts.

david