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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 1999 4:55 pm 
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Are psychological disorders real, since most people assume they exist only in one's mind? (not associated with a physical symptom)If it is proven that exercise helps those with schizophrenia, depression, anxiety disorders and developmental disabilities, will Dr "X" dismiss the findings as a placebo effect and therefore akin to "chi" helping a backache? Inquiring minds want to know! GEM

In Saturday's Boston Globe it was reported that "exercise is found to help psychoogical disorders".

"The strongest evidence of benefit comes from studies of patients with depression. Major improvements were seen as soon as five weeks after people begin exercising 3 times a week, for 20 to 60 minutes at a time, finds the report, which assessed nearly 20 years' worth of studies of exercise as therapy."


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 1999 2:19 am 
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Are psychological disorders real? Is pain real?If you have ever suffered a serious depression (and about thirty percent of the population will at some time in their lives) you know the answer to that question. Treating adults with depression and anxiety disorders has been my area of professional focus for the last fifteen years. By now, I have treated hundreds, perhaps even a thousand or more, people who have had to be admitted to a hospital because of the real effects of their mood disorder. There is no doubt that exercise is an important part of the recovery strategy. All people should exercise as a regular part of their lifestyle. People who have been effected by mood disorders need it even more that the average person. Trouble is, when someone is in the throes of a clinical depression they can hardly get up off the couch to eat or dress, nevermind exercise. Many of these severely depressed individuals nees the assistance of medication and other therapies to get themselves outr of the deepest stages of misery and despair. But once they begin to feel even moderately better, it is important that they adopt a number of wellness-oriented lifestyle management practices to enhance and support normal mood. Exercise is probably chief among these. And of the different forms of exercise (all are good, but some are better) aerobic release and strength training seem to be particularly beneficial. Though karate has not been formally studied, to my knowledge,it meets so many of the criteria for a mood enhancing program that I will often suggest it to those whose personality seems a good fit. How many of us have found that a strenuous and vigorous karate class after a stressful workday calms the nerves and restores a sense of inner balance?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 1999 8:36 pm 
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As the principles of Budhist veiws reflect upon the fact that we all suffer as a "condition of life" known as the "first noble truth" and that this suffering comes from our "desires" in life which we become so strongly "attatched" to, i would say that most "psychological disorders" stem from the inability to accept life as it is. Also referred to as "The truth, the way
things really are.

If you are familiar wth any of the "Eastern Phylosophy" which i refer to, you most likely understand where i am going with this. If not, then you have no idea and most likely will laugh at it.

"Inner balance" must be obtained through mind, body and spirit unity. Surely "Karate-do" does that for most of us. For some it is obtained through other means. Running, golf, arobics, archery, or any other "activity" that occuppies the mind and body with total concentration and focus. Incorperating a breathing pattern into the act is a form of 'Zen Meditation" in the active way such as in "Sanchin".

What may this all have to do with the questions; Is "psychological deppression" real? Does exersize help to reduce stress and related disorders? Certainly i think it does and we must continue to work towards "self developemnt" which i feel is a "Major" value to the art of karate.

Paul is without a doubt more "qualified" than any of us to understand the "Psychoogical Disorders" of human beings. I tend to believe that by staying focused in life on "something" constructive that relieves stress and built up tension from everyday life, we have a better chance of staying "In Balance" than of those less fortunate.

For most of us i believe that "Balance" is found in or Uechi-ryu and/or whatever other art one follows. I feel that we are lucky to have what we do. Unfortunately, i dont think that the "jitsu" fighting arts have the same qualities whereas they tend to focus on strickly "technics" of defense rather than a "Way" of self developement?

What do you think?



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Gary S.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 1999 10:56 pm 
for the good doctorx...all of them

Love looks not with the eyes, but with the mind,
And therefore is winged Cupid painted blind.

William Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream

www.teleport.com/~interlud/thought.htm

[This message has been edited by mugaku (edited 07-05-99).]


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 1999 11:35 pm 
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Gary,
well said. I agree entirely... there is value to 'jutsu', and even more value to 'do'. Few of us would have stuck with jutsu more than a few months. Many of us follow the do for decades, or lifetimes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 1999 1:06 am 
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Gary/Paul:

I would offer a somewhat different opinion regarding DO vs. Jutsu. Neither is more or less "spiritual" than the other. In trying to make it so, we are but projecting our own ideas/meaning on words. Zen and Taoist practices in fact discourage such attempts at categorization. Remember that line from Bruce Lee in Enter Dragon: "Don't look at my finger (pointing at the moon)!!! Or you'll miss all the heavenly glory." Fact of the matter, if one throws oneself wholeheartedly into something, it's true authentic action coming from the one's heart. It's the perfect action, the perfect moment, without self consciousness and ego manipulation.

Yes. Do is about spiritual development. But, really... do we really believe all Do practitioners are spiritual in their endeavor? Jutsu is about combat techniques, those that determine the thin line between life and death. One chance, one life. Knowing that a mistake can be injurious if not fatal and being able to accept that with equanimity, is this not spiritual?

Let's look at the walk rather than listen to the talk.

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited 07-09-99).]


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 1999 6:52 am 
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Hi Dave,

I do not intend to be negative in any way towards "jutsu" for certainly it's value in combative trainning is without question. I would also agree that "many" whom study "Do" (the way) have no idea at all what any of it means other than showing up and practicing the physical aspects of the arts.

As for Zen, Toaism, Buddhism and other "Eastern Philosophy" i understand the "non-attachment" of catagorizing things however, when one tries to explain their opinion or view regarding any of it, there will reflect some attachment. Understanding it is one thing, living it quite another.

I have studied some Jujitsu and Aikido which to me was "all" technique. Not that it is a bad thing. I only imply that in my study and persuit of the "way" or "Do", i find a balance of physical, mental and spiritual energy in "breathing" and focusing in "kata" and in some other aspects of practice, that i did not reap the same benefits from in "jutsu".

Maybe as i am creeing up in my mid fourties, i value my depth of understanding in "Do" that there is more than just "technique" to be mastered. There is the inner development of the self, that is a life long journey.

It is my opinion that many practicioners of Karate-do move on only after having attained lower Dan ranks because they do not fully understand what it is about. But, on the other side of that, i can also appreciate the "young buck" who is looking to develope his "fighting" ability to the utmost effeciency. Incorperating, karate, grappling, jujitsu and whatever else one desires.

However, to master any one system, it is a life long journey. Cross trainning surely is helpful to know and/or understand how other styles work. We all have some weaknesses in our styles and we should not think that we are invincable to anyone at anytime.

With all respect,



------------------
Gary S.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 1999 11:17 am 
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Gary,

I didn't take any offense from your post. I wanted to offer another perspective.

As a fellow heading into mid forties as well, I too think a lot about what the practice means beyond mere physical techniques, or wining and losing. In other words, I am concerned about Do. But I guess my latest thought is that Do is not confined to the dojo or to a particular practice. It's reflected in all aspects of our lives and how we live it.

The Dojo is a funny place. You can either be informed by the time in it or become more clouded/delusional with the time. The practice can be brutally honest. A hit is a hit. No excuses -- I am having a bad day; well, if I did this instead of that; he suckered me; whatever... Accept the hit as a gift and move on. That moment is passed. Develop one's sincerity and acceptance of what is, forget about pefection, but don't give up trying to do one's best. On the other hand, we have people who are not interested in being challenged, only in looking good; not interested in what they can learn, but rest comfortably in what they think they know. They wear their black belts (as Van sensei) likes to say, as "amulets" around the waist. In the dojo, they have found their "meaning", never mind the other aspects of their lives are neglected and/or going to pot. I think we can all manifest some traits of each. Do is the practice of trying to see and understand it, and to work on it the moment one sees it. And, this is not relegated to just within the walls of the dojo.

Good training to you for today. Yesterday is gone and tomorrow is but a dream.

david


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 1999 11:29 pm 
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David and Gary,
I suppose one difference between 'do' and 'justsu' is the purpose for study. Jutsu is the pure self-defense, with the eye only to the practical and effective. No fighting?... noe need to study. The 'do'provides some elements of fighting, but also the more overriding focus on self-enrichment. If you were a soldier or a cop who needed to learn fighting techniques only of their practical application value then 'jutsu' would be fine. If you need or want more than that in your life, then add the 'do'. The 'do' is not "instead of" the 'jutsu', it is 'in addition " to it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 1999 3:06 am 
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Paul,

I guess I still think the separation or distinction is not necessarily true. Do forms derived in most cases from jutsu forms. Spiritual pursuit, self enrichment, or an attempt to understand the "Way" have probably been a human concern from day one. I am sure it was/is a concern of the some jutsu practitioners even as they practice for life and death.

Examples of such concern can gleamed from Musashi's Book of Five Rings, Takuan Soho's work, The Unfettered Mind. While the Five Rings is often viewed as Musashi's treatise on life and death strategies and tactics, which it is, it is also about his understanding of the "Way". The Unfettered Mind is a collection of essays and correspondences between Takuan, the Zen Master, and Yagyu Munenori, a renown and gifted swordmaster for the Tokugawa shoguns, and the headmaster of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. Yagyu Munenori in essense was qeurying Takuan to better understand the "Way" of the sword.

There are other examples too of proven sword masters who struggled to understand the Way, even as they lived and died by the sword. (Don't ask because then I have to go look back then up in the library.) Also, reading Wiley's book, Filipino Martial Culture, you'll find interviews with FMA masters who were/are also concerned with "spirituality" even as they practice life giving/taking techniques.

By no means am I advocating that everybody practice with a "jutsu" approach. I do think one should be practice with a clear understanding and honesty about why they practice. If so, then "Do" is present.

david


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 1999 5:45 am 
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Paul and David,

You both make some very good points here. I do think that as Paul mentions, "jutsu" is geared more to the "self defense" application and combative usage of technique.

However, as David makes mention of the use of the sword (Katana) which i studied for a short while, there is mention of the "way" in that. Yes, for in it was also repitition of "form" with kata, that had an application for each movement. Surely the "Samurai Warrior"
lived by the way of the sword. "Bushido" code of the warrior. Prepared to die at any instant. Willing to sacrifice his life (if needed) for principle or honor.

I sometimes add a little "jutsu" to uechi in finishing up some techniques which we so often leave alone after one punch or a kick. Certainly it has it's place. A wrist lock, a pressure point grab or strike, a leg sweep or arm lock.
How often do we work these things into our uech-ryu trainning? Not much i believe, for to many are stuck on "that's not uechi" no, but it sure can take it one step further.

If this is what you are meaning David, were "Do" and "Jutsu" come together and maybe are different but yet the same. I can see that view also.

Thank you both for sharing your views on this.



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Gary S.


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