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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:59 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA
Jonh: Any input on the FM 5.7?

Rich

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 Post subject: 5.7 Nato Hangun
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:22 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
I know nearly nothing about that caliber. When adoptions of new cartridges are made I am sometimes mystified.

The Russian (Militia) Police has utilized a pistol in this range for a long time, and I have not heard any reports that are negative.

The German Police (pre and post war) Uitlized the ..32 acp in the Walther Designed PP (Pistole Polezei) which is still very popular in 9 m/m Kurz (380)
PPKS version.

The .380 ACP I have long considered the minimum for personal defense. Therefore I look with a Jaundiced eye at the subcalibers used by the Russian Police.

I will check around for info about the caliber and pistol.

Smith & Wesson has the rights to produce the PP and PPKS series of pistols, I am told, what with the fall of Interarms. However they have not produved any, yet. I have heard that they will.

I will get back to you.

JT

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Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Quite an Eyeopener
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:41 pm 
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Well, As promised, I did review the reports on this remarkeable handgun/cartridge combination.

It offers concealability, low recoil, hi penetration through body armor of most types, a handsome and well backed wepaon.

I puts me slightly in mind of the 5.7mm "Vixen"catrdridge developed for the M-1 Carbine, not up to 5.56 Nato performance, but, for most applications, clearly superior to the Standard M-1 Carbine round IN THAT WEAPON!!!!! (barrel change only required.)

The site I found gave little atual performance information, But I a guess:
the impact at close to moderate range of a 40-45gr bullet, moving at least 1700 fps would be fearsome. "Knockdown", the elusive intangible would remain the only question unanswered..

If they have kept the stabiization on the "edge" it would allow instant "tumbling on impact" and disitergtration of the projectile, but, though such an impact/wound would be devastating, s 'barely" stabilzed bullet might not deliver the desired penetration.

Nonetheless, In the words of the great Will Smith: "I have GOT to get me one of these!!"

Sorry for the delay.

JT.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:18 pm 
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FN has released a completely new line full auto and semi auto weapons apparently related to the "pistole" you mention. .

As soon as I digest same, I will see what I can contribitute on this point. SGN has a four page article of the new "line" of weapons.forward on this post.

FN is a venerable name in arms production and I Own a Fabrique Nationale "9mm 'pistole grand puissance" . This pistole was desisgned By John Browning as were many of the Winchester Rifle designsincluding the M1892 and M1886 at the least. I am unsure of the design origins of the M1894 and M1895.

The "Browning Hipower rifle" (NOT the current versions, BBR) are de facto procducts of FN and a virtual twin of the Mauser G98 and K98K, which served Germany well through WWI and WWII.

The Basic MAuser/FN/Browning design served America well during these wars as well as evidenced by the lawsuit by Mauserwerke agains Springfield Armory and the USA, which Mauser won.

The Springfield 1903 and 1903A3 are srtikingly similar to the G98 and K98k (see the K(*K98k-Backbone of The Wermacht") and it is a fact that anyone who trained on am 1903 et seq wuld have NO difficulty operating a G98 or K98.

A sloppily chanbered 1903 (or Garand) would accept Germany's 8X57 round, but "don't try this at home"

I will get the names and model numbers of this series and post them as soon as I can..

JT

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Hi:

More info on the PS90 and pistol companion.

I noted that the 5.7X28mm Fn was vaguely familiar to the 5.7mm Carbine (.30 Carbine necked down) I would really like one of these as performance is pretty Dern Good.

It is technically a "Wildcat" designed to up the perfornance of the .30 carbine Round. this is done by necking the .30 Carbine to a little over 22 cal.

It is more powerful than the FN, putting out a 40 gr. bullet at about 3000 FPS. The 5.56 Nato is also superior in performance and lobs a 55 grain projectile at about 3100 fps.

With respect to the new FN round (there are two) the SS05 verion puts a 40 grain round out of the PS90 'rifle' at 2413 fps.

It is FN's rifle pf the new Rifle/pistol combination that contains major design innovation. its construction is largeely polymer, except for the barrel and bolt. It is of a bullup design. It was the weapon chosen for the Stargate Series becaue of its futuristic appearance.

The Magazazine of the Rifle is mounted horizontally on the top of the rifle and contains 50 rounds, so I guess we are not going to see them in Mass., California and New Jersey anytime soon. However 10 round magazines are available.

The rifle is VERY short with and overall length of 26.3 inches and a barrell length of 16.1 inches, this would have to be lengthned to 18.5" just to get it into the US.

It weighs almost 7 lbs. It comes fitted with a 1x optical gun sight "allowing rapid target Aquistion". (Infomation and Quotes c/o Shtgun News)

It it a very handy weapon but seems a bit heavy for the performance given.

the round would (or could) out penetrate the 9X18mm in the pistol version.

What the BATF is going to allow into the US is questionable.

The dealers I talked were a bit iffy about purchasing the combo(even if they could) because it is a new cartridge which does not perform in a superior fashion to that's out the now. It (The 5.7X28mm) has not been adopted by NATO or any other military.

The Military, after experiences in the open country area of Afgansitan and Iraq do not seem likelely to adopt a less powerful cartridge.

The rationale behind behind charnbering the PS90 and the accompanying pistol seems to be that both the assualt weapon and the pistol can 'handle' the round.

Personally I guess I have gotten used to the ergonomics of the M16 and M16A2.

The Bristish Enfield assualt weapon is a bit similar outwardly to the FN, but also is somewhat heavy.

JT

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