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 Post subject: The Twisted Cross
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:30 pm 
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Although Wikipedia did not yield the photos shown, it did at least lead me in the right direction.

Dora Europos was a Roman city in Syria. It is called the Pompeii of the East.

I had been stumbling over references to it in Barker's "Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome" and at least one other of the most very excellent Man-at Arms series by Osprey Publications.

The city was destroyed, along with its synagogue and military camp at about the time of Julian's failed expedition against the Sassanid Persian, themselve the successors of the Parthia Empire and the "Successor" Empire of the Seleucids so called because of the manner of its making, ie; held by a successor of Alexander as was the Kingdomin Egypt to which Cleopatra was an heir.

The City fell by siege but, because of this, many historical paintings and other artifacts, such as full armor suits, were preserved until their unearthing 1500 years later during Britains desert campaign against the Ottoman in WWI.

I will get more on this unfortunate city up later.

Among the 'wall paintings' found was a picture of three Roman officers of the late Empire which shows the Swastika on the uniform.

I am having a bit of trouble in getting picture up so I will get back on this thread after I am successful.

Adolf Schickelgruber (AH's real name as I am sure most of you know) did not have exclusive rights to the Swastika.


Image



I am a bit puzzled as some authorities (beleive it or not H.G. Wells in his Outline of History----pre WWII) view the clockwise version of the twisted cross as a symbol of 'bad luck' and the counter clockwise version as the symbol of 'good luck'.

I am aware that the symbol also appears on Buddhist tombstones in Vietnam but I am still trying to pick out the 'why' of that.


JT

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:13 am 
Hi John I beleived one of the uses of the symbol was Egyption , Ive also heard it tied symbolicaly to the eternal harvest , but is generally regarded prior to the nazis as a symbol of good luck .


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The swastika was a universal symbol of the sun long before Hitler appropriated it. The word is derived from the Sanskrit swasti or well-being and the symbol first appears in the Indus-Saraswathi civilisation. To the Vedic Aryans, it represented the sun, the arms signifying the solar rays and moving in a clockwise direction. It was an attribute of the Greek Zeus and the battle axe of the Scandinavian Thor, besides being found elsewhere in Europe, Asia and the Americas. It is one of the eight symbols of good luck in Buddhism, a symbol of the sacred fire of Zarathushtra and the sun-worshipping magi of ancient Persia, and of the gammadion in early Christianity. The swastika was so popular in Persia and Central Asia that many mosques in Persia and Central Asia were decorated with swastikas by the image-eschewing Moslems.

There is a large mosque in Central Samarkhand, overlooking the ancient Silk Road. On the top of its fa├žade is a huge round-faced three-eyed sun, with rays blazing wide, flanked by two large Bengal tigers. The walls are decorated with swastikas. Timur built the mosque after his incursions into northern India, and it is believed that he took back Indian and Persian artisans who designed and constructed the mosque. The popularity of the solar symbolism outweighed Islamic considerations.


Bhuddists still revere it , I beleive it is used as a symbol of eternity and Dharma

Edit , I should of checked wikipedia straight off ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika


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 Post subject: The Twisted Cross
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Timur eh?

It is said he used to hate it when emissaries from the West called him Timur i leng.

since his Empire had its capital in Samarkand, at least that gives a hope of seeing how it cross pollinated.

I will do a bit more reading. HGWells and Davies ("Europe") both talk a bit on symbology

jt

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:29 pm 
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The swastika was used by many ancient peoples from Rome through Egypt and the Fertile Crescent to China. It was also seen as a symbol on the teepees of Plains Indian tribes. It seems to have been a symbol of primal power that the NAZIs twisted jjust as they twisted so damned much else.

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 Post subject: Point Taken
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:51 pm 
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Point taken Hugh.

As do many 'dime store' novelists did, H.G. Wells wished to be a writer known for more than his sci fi.

Arthur Conan Doyle wished to be a historical novel author and did, in fact, write two very good books about the 100 Years war.

The first was "the White Company" fleshing the history of the free companies in France. Hawkood's Company was undoubtedly the man he was writing about.

The Second was "Sir Nigel" about an English Lord of low means who went to France and participated in the famous "fight of the Thirty" where 15 French and fifteen English Knight, by agreement and without order, took it upon themselves to 'Duke it Out" (Pun intended).

Truly the famous fight was a 'rumble', but not "a la Outrance' multi faceted superduel necessarily.

I will have to find Sifr Nigel and reread the descriptions of the fight which supposed exemplified the mindset of chivalry of that day.

As for Mr. Wells, his "Outline of World History" rather stunned me when it came up for auction in a small Maine town called Parsonsfield.

It stunned me just for te very fact that it existed and for the fact that I got the two volume set for $$10.00.

Wells goes in some detail showing and discussing the runes and the Twisted Cross symbol. he maintains that the runic cross twisted as the Nazis twisted it, stood for bad luck. I think I already mentioned that.

the books preceded World War II and Hitler so Wells had no idea how the symbol was to be 'twisted' as Hugh said.

I also have to scan some of these drawing in and get the actual date of the books publication.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:08 pm 
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Your mention of Doyle's The White Company takes me back. I read that when I was but a youngster summering with my gandmother. I remember that it was a Hell of a story.

Mark Twain wrote a biography of Jeanne d'Arc entitled Saint Joan that you might find interesting. Ken Cox from over at BladeForums put me onto it years ago.

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