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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2431
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Hi All:Image
Image
Mirage 2000 and 2000-c

Well, Hugh asked the question, why was not the F16 on your top list of dogfighters.

Having watched, in my new capacity as forum hoplogist, I was taken with videos of the Mig-29 and the Sukhoi 37 and 47.(The latter a reverse swept wing version of the Su-37.

Now, with respect to the latter, It literally demonstrated that it could fly upwards (straight up) in the inverted position as well as straight forward in the inverted, bottom side forward position. Absolutely Amazing.
Image 'Growler"


the Su-27K and the Mig 29K and Su-37 and 47 all have carrier capabilities.
ImageImage Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-37

I did not know that either of the two Russian Carriers remaned in service. I will check on this.
Image

Su-37

It is literally scary. I have never even seen an American Aircraft attempt to match the manuevers on the video..

ImageMig-35

I am sorry to say that the City of San Francisco has thus far refused to allow a Blue Angels show there as "unsafe and undeeded". Meaning, in effect, we do not want the military in our city.

Technically, the BA will probably be alright with this since their performance calend is jammed with 70 shows a year. (note that there is no place now in Mass where we could go to watch their performance.

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Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:31 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Growing up at the end of a Naval station landing strip I actually took the Blue Angels for granted I saw them practice and do their thing so much.

Miss spent youth......

F.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:35 pm 
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I hope to attach pictures of the blue Angels:

Such as the the Current FA18 and the starter of them all; theF8F "Bearcat"

Sorry these do not want to post so I will try another method.

In writng, to be supplemented later, the aircraft (with my comments) used by the Angels when they were formed post war were:

1. The Grumman F8F Bearcat, a derivative of the WWII F6F Hellcat. this figther saw combat on the side of anti Castro force in the Bay of Pigs affair as did the venerable A-26, which saw service in korea and Vietnam.

The Bearcat had a limited service life and was no combat in US Navy hands.

2. The Grumman F9f "Panther"; a beautiful aircraft somewhat similar to the Lockeed P-80 Shooting Star. It saw strike combat experience in Korea and is somewhat immotalized in the Film "The Bridge at Toki-Ri". Its Dogfight capabilities vs. the Mig 15 would have been a problem at it would have been for its contemporaries: the F-80, and the F-84 Republic "Thunderjet".

3. The Grumman F9F "Cougar"; a swwept wing variant of the "Panther" much as the F-84 had a swept wing vaiant called the "Thunderstreak" which never saw combat, but was deployed with nato forces in Europe and rather highly regarded. Oddly, the author of "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull" I beleive, wrote a piece about flying the "Thunderstreak". The Thunderstreak was used in ANG service wuntil the early 70's.

4. The Vought F7U 'Cutlass". A flop.

5. The Grumman F11F "Tiger". My personal favorite. a beautiful aicraft. Swept wing, fast maneuverable-a BA's ----Dream.

6. The McDonnel Douglas F-4 Phantom. Some recalled comments "the Earth Shook and the ground moved on their 'flybys'". the F-4 surely must have been a handful for the BA's. Big, gas gulping, not overly manuerable. However, it was FAST and could take the fight to any Sovbloc aircraft of the time vertically. I t came at a time when it was needed much as the F-86 came when it was needed for Korea

7. The Mcdonnell-Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. "Scooters Forever!!" Still in servcie (much upgraded) with the Argentine Fuerza Airea and the Brazilian AF. Did deadly work against the British in the Falkland. Also still operated, if beleive, with the HAF (Hellenic Air Force-Greece). Also called Heineman's hotrod as that designer was literally challenged to build a strike aicraft small enough for carrier use without folding wings and yet carry a substantial bomb load. Used in the Navy reserve until the late 70's. Saw combat in Vietnam and the Flaklands War. manueverable, small, fuel efficient, not generally AAM armed but could manage the AIM Sidewinders. Hard to see.

8. The F/A 18 Hornet; surely as popular with the BA's as any they have flown. Very maneurable, fast. It is becoming the airframe that will serve all Navy Carrier Borne Needs for Strike, Air Supremacy, Fleet protection, and Electronic Warfare. (excepting the E2C Hawkeye).
Image

A picture of all the Airframes flown by the Blue Angels, except the Vought F7U

John

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 Post subject: Kuznetzov
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Only one Fixed Wing Aircraft Carrier Remians in Russian Service: the Admiral Kuznetzov (40,000 tonnes) intended as a first step in developing a Larger 80,000 tonne "Orel" Class.

Somewhat similar to the decisions made by the UK, (Illustrious) the Russian Carriers exemplified by the Kiev and Moskva class carriers are 'Jump jet capable" only and are classified as "Large Anti Submarine Cruisers" and retain considerable SSM and AAM capabilities. the label was attached to comply with treaty requirements as no Aircraft Carrier, as such, is allowed to transit the Dardanelles

Many of these latter two classes have been scrapped.

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