Sword Question

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Sword Question

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:02 pm

Hi:

I know Hugh has an excellent Viking sword.

While surfing I noticed Hanwei and Cold Steel also offer one.

Of course these are not one the level of Patrick Barta's but perhaps some thoughts might occur to sword officionados about these middle priced weapons.

J
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Postby Hugh » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:50 pm

I would suggest to you that you might want to look at the sword from Kris Cutlery.* It has received very good reports for its price. The balance point being 5 3/4" or so forward of the guard is apprpriate for a sword such as the Viking Sword which is a slashing sword and not a thrusting sword. Its weight may be a bit on the high side, but not too much. BTW, their Pompeii gladius has received very good reports for the sword if not the scabbard. The scabbard is probably minimally acceptable but the sword is reputedly very nice. The same could probably be said of the scabbard for their Viking sword. It is leather and you don't want to store a carbon steel blade in leather as the acids in the leather hves a tendency to discolor the steel.

Another place is Kult of Athena.** The sell a number of makes at a discount from what the makers tend to price them. Take a look at some of the Windlass Steel swords such as the Ulfberht, the Sticklestad, and the Leuterit. These have received accptable reviews when one considers their cost. They probably have rat-tail tangs, but they are cheap and I haven't read of any of those particular swords filing of late. The Windlass swords come with a "sort of" edge but the shop will sharpen them for you for a nominal fee and it is worth it. There is also a very pretty sword from Hanwei/Paul Chen called the Godfred that has a pattern welded blade. The original Godfreds had heat treat problems and there were some blade failures but the newer ones seem to have gotten a handle on that. It comes more or less sharp.

KOA also sells the Generation 2 River Witham sword which was developed under the supervison of the late Hank Reinhart, one of the main experts in Western Sword Arts. There have been mixed reports on it, but what I have seen of it is really nice. This sword is made in the Philippines by smiths for Imperial Weapons whose Bowie Replicas I have bought and they do really nice job on their work when they put their minds to it. Imperial has it on sale for the same price as KOA and I can recommend dealing with Clyde Hollis there.*** BTW, if Bowie Knives are of any interest to the denzens of this forum, they should look at the current offering from Clyde.**** It is a replica of a James Daniel Searles Bowie for $209.00 and cheap at the price. I have one and it is a beauty. Not so nice as the one from Dixie Gun Works which I also have, but it costs $250 + another $130 for the proper period appropriate sheath, for a total of $380. Buy the Generation 2 Bowie if you are even thinking of one. The Searles Bowie is, IMO, the classiest of the better known Bowie variants and Hearles has a real connection to the Bowie family as his smithy/shop was in Baton Rouge, just up the river from Rezin Bowie's plantation and Rezin, James Bowie's brother, was known to give Searles Bowies as gifts. He gave one to a Capt. Fowler of the US Dragoons in the 1830s and it now resides in the Alamo Museum. Also, I have been offered up to $500 for the first of the Generation 2 Bowies, his replica of the Musso Bowie now out of production. I turned it down.

I would suggest staying away from Valiant Armoury, Depeeka, and Ritter Steel as all three of them have the reputation of being steel bars, durable but heavy and badly balanced. You can, of course, deal with Cold Steel if you wish but I will not patronize Lynn Thompson as I cannot abide his bloody awful hype nor some of his business practices such as ripping off others' designs. If you doubt me on this, take a look at his Black Talon folder and then look at the Spyderco Civilian or Harpy. A quick look at his Monthly Special, the Pendleton Hunter, and it is a copy of A.G. Russell's WoodsWalker knife, except that the Russell knife is likely better made and less expensive. His Viking Sword is both more expensive and no where near as accurate a replica as the River Witham Sword or any of the Windlass Steel swords as far as I can see. But, then, I may be prejudiced. Compare them for yourselves.

* https://www.kriscutlery.com/documents/medieval.html
** http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-dark.htm
*** http://www.imperialweapons.com/swords/Gen2/IP-702.html
**** http://www.imperialweapons.com/knives/Ip-203.html
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Postby Hugh » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:45 pm

Also, may I add that I do not have that excellent sword as yet. I am now one year into a two and a half year wait for Patrick to get to me. He is that popular, even at his prices. Meanwhile, the dollar keeps sinking against the euro which is how he prices his his work. DAMN!
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Postby f.Channell » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:50 am

I have heard good things about Kris Cutlery.

I recently picked up a WWII Phillipine dagger. Authentic not repro, perhaps John can post the picture.

Send me a PM with your e-mail and i'll send it.

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Ouch

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:33 pm

Hugh:

I think that was the only reason I might not decide to go to Barta is the wait.

I appreciate all the websites (which i peruse intently as I love sword websites) and the input.

Would you mind taking a look at the Sacred Band Post.

I am sure there are additions and corections that you and Fred could make.

The story of the Sacred Band always makes my skin go goose bumply.

As Costain said about this Character Basil The Greek in The Silver Chalice:

"I was not inclined to military service, but the sight of the Legions always made my hair stand up"

(or words to that effect)

Also, now that another memory joint has been kicked open, the Chalice in that novel was inspired by one that I think was found in Antioch, but I think there is way more than a 50/50 chance I am wrong on this one.

J
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PS

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:59 pm

I have the 3rd Century Straubing Nydam sword shown on one of the sites.

Is is well made, but not sharp, perhaps pointing to Deppeka at its point of origin.

I have El Cheapo Viking Sword from Bud K--and It does not shape up terribly after two or three months work pratice sharpening and polishing.

However, it is an SS blade, but it looks ok.

I even completely reshaped that Horrible SS Sword of Gladiator (rat tail) just for practice.

Got thru the reshape ok, but did not go too heavily into the sharpening.

My Student Ron has mastered Tsukimaki, polishes well.

I do some polishing and shaping-we may try for some blanks sometime.

Buk K offer a Paki Gladius which was ss and very poorly designed.

It seemed sturdy and was cheap and I reshaped the blade and Ron is polishing it.

I think we will go no farther than a 600 grit polish base.

I will get some pics up soon.

J
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Postby Hugh » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:35 pm

John, to put it bluntly, you are attempting to make silk purses out of sows' ears with all of these cheap and nasty sword like objects that you keep messing around with. If you enjoy doing that, fine but they will never be real swords and I would be MOST suspicious about ever trying to cut with any of them. Go with a Gneration2, a Kris Cutlery, or a Windlass Steel sword for both the historical accuracy and decent quality for the price. If you go a bit upmarket from there, take a look at the Albion Squire Line Viking Sword for $398 + sharpening as it does not come that way. It is intended for re-enacting and sparring, so it is rebated. But Albion will sharpen it with the proper taper and edge angles. Of course, a scabbard will be extra.
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A Silk Purse

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:47 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image

Ah---OK Hugh:

We have actually been asked by Albion if we wished to take on some polishing.

We're too Busy.

Above is a Paul Chen Practical Katana. that was rebuilt.

Perhaps learning the skills should have been undertaken on a $1000 Katana???

The Plastic Tsuka was removedand a jig (stand) was built to do the Tsukimaki,

The Tsukimaki was redone, a new Tsuka carved, copper foil Chryanthemums were inset into the Saya and Fuchi.

My student Ron did the whittling of the new Tsuka, and the Tsukimaki and the replacement Same.

In other words, he did all the work.,

So, yes, above is the Silk Purse from a Sow's ear.

See the follow up thread.

Regardless of the above results and the results showed on the follow up thread, Hugh's advice is to be taken extremely seriously as he is the expert.


j
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Postby Hugh » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:16 pm

When you start with a Paul Chen anything, you are not really starting with a sow's ear. As I have said elsewhere, the Western Paul Chen Practical swords are on the heavy side and not terribly well balanced for actual dueling or cutting as they were designed for re-enactment, but they ARE solid and well made for the money. It was the Bud K stainless sword-like objects (SLOs) to which I was referring.
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Postby Hugh » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:58 pm

John, while looking for recommendations for Fred on Highland Dirks, I was looking at Castle Keep's news page and saw some stunning work that he had done on Viking Swords. He might be able to make you one more quickly than Patrick Barta and, if asked, might also be willing to consider making a spatha for you. He seems not to be too locked in to Scottish designs, at least from the handsome falcata/machaeira that I saw when I clicked on one of his pictures.
http://www.castlekeep.co.uk/news.php#mon17april06

Here is another spatha possibility for you. It is the Hod Hill Spatha from Manning and I have played a bit with Nate Bell's Hod Hill. It has a real blade presence as might be expected from a true slashing sword and it is simply gorgeous to hold and to admre. Please remember that the price is in Australian dollars and needs converting to US dollars.
http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php ... 10&c_id=52

Then there is Holger Ratsdorf. He has a superb 3rd Century spatha, complete with scabbard and baldric, for 2300 Euros, which is really quite a reasonable price for a pattern-welded blade with all the fixings. Click on "Replicas".
http://www.hr-replikate.de/englisch/index.html

Finally, there is the option of asking someone like Art Elwell if he would like to take a blade from Gus Atrim and hilt it for you. I believe that Gus has some spatha blades in the programming of his CAD-CAM machine and I know that he sells to Art. Art then does custom cutlery work on them.
http://www.a-work-of-art.net/
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Swords and More Swords

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:48 pm

Hugh:

Yes, well, I know the PK's are a bit heavy but can still cut.

I know you were not referring to the Paul Chens or Hanwie.

I just wanted to show how MUCH the original PK's can be upgraded.



My First Hanwei was theri FIRST the Shinto Katana, it was deemed to light.

The sword, first of Hanweis offerings, had very nice brass or bronze fittings (probably bronze) because of its lightness remains my favorite.

I will be posting my flick blop website for perusal with more pics than I would put up here.

More to follow.

J
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Postby jorvik » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:38 pm

Although my first post here was a bit brutal :lol: :lol: ...........I do like most sword arts...and the indefinable quality of certain arts, which one really cannot do justice to except in good conversation over a fine ale..........so we don't really connect when we talk on the "net" :roll: , however I do really,really like this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhFtrmci ... ed&search=

I understand their passion, I know exactly where they are coming from.....and they will really enjoy martial arts 8) 8)
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Postby Hugh » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:30 pm

It is a pity that my office will not allow me to watch anything on youtube. :x
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Postby f.Channell » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:26 pm

You should hit a library once in a while to watch Hugh.95% junk, but some good like what Jorvik posted.

I almost joined a Kendo school Jorvik, maybe after another year of Iaido.
There are some things I didn't like, like calling out the target before attack. But overall good stuff.

Must be some there. A lot probably.

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Postby jorvik » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:57 pm

There is a lot to like in Japanese traditional arts like Kendo.they do kata and Iado and some bo-jutsu as well...also some do Kumdo the Korean variant of Kendo...Kendo seems to encompass all that in my country.
I liked their approach doing Tennin rishin ryu and kendo to get a more complete understanding of the sword.
they only seem to name the target when they are in competition, so you can still get away without it on club nights.
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