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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:31 pm 
I have been contemplating buying a Navaja for some time the best I have seen so far are the JJ martinez http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?M ... tID=114063
and
http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?M ... ptID=30295

I have a few switchblade stilletoes in my collection....however I have heard of makers creating none switchblade stilletoes ( I believe the stilleto is a triangular blade shape although most Italian auto collectors refer to stilletoes when they speak of "James Dean "knives)...they invariably , in the best makes have a "picklock" 8) ....does anyone know of a good example of either of these.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Jorvik, am I correct in my belief that locking folders are illegal in the UK? (Ain't government in loco parentis for grown adults wonderful?) If so, I guess that those non-ratcheting navajas are for you all. But that more or less destroys the historical nature of the beast, if you follow me. Part of the character of the navaja is the ratcheting sound as you open it. I have read that the sentries in Napoleon's army in Spain back about 200 years ago were terrified by that sound as it meant that they were about to get their throats cut by the original guerillas. It is that sound that gave the navaja its nickname, El Carracca".

In any case, you may want to look at this website. I have often drooled over their navajas and their French Laguiole-style knives which seem to be a related design. What is a little known fact is that Spyderco once made a Laguiole style knife. I would really love to have one, but they are all collectors' pieces and priced accordingly.
http://gyby.stores.yahoo.net/

BTW, you mentioned the stiletto knife. Those were the standard switchblade in the teen exploitation films of the 1950s, the original being "Blackboard Jungle". Those flicks eventually got switchblades banned federally as the weapon that was going to end civilization as we knew it. :roll: They were notoriously weak at the pivot between the hilt and the blade. There is a scene in the above flick where the teacher, played by Glenn Ford, takes one away from the lead punk, played by a very young Vic Morrow, stabs it into a desktop and backhands it, breaking it off at the pivot. They were junk and I sincerely doubt that the manual versions are any better. But the above store has one listed under "Italian Knives."

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:29 pm 
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As to who makes decent switchblades today, I would say that would have to be BenchMade, MicroTech, and ProTech in the USA and Boker in Germany. I understand that carrying one is legal in Germany and the USA makers sell them to police, firemen, and active duty military who are all allowed by law to have them. But it is a federal offense to ship, order, or transport one across a state line in the USA unless you are in one of the above categories.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:12 am 
Locking folders are perfectly legal to own in my country, carrying one is a big no no, unless you can justify to a police officer why you need it, and this applies to fixed blade knives as well. The only knife you can carry with impunity is a 3 inch none locking folder.
I agree that the law is absurd, as is the firearms law :cry: .........I often used to talk about the socialists in power in my country.
Many stupud Americans think that tony b liar is wonderful because he supported the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, they don't realise that he is a threat to democracy or the terrible state that he has left Britain in. :roll:
If you are a history Buff let me recommend a book " The soverign individual" by James Dale Davidson and William Reece-Mogg..........it looks at modern life from a historical perspective and makes predictions based on this. currently it equates government to the state of the church in the 14th century.making more and more absurd laws that are too hard to enforce......which is why in my country gun crime is worse than most US states ....even though hand guns are prohibited :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:08 pm 
The ratcheting Navajas and the none ratcheting confuse people. The ratcheting ones that I have seen in Spain do not always lock, they are just harder to open and close....although some do actually lock and are very hard to close as well. The none Ratcheting do lock.the flap on the top of the handle is used to seperate the lock just like in a lockback...and similar to the way a James Dean knife unlocks..one trick with these is that they can be flicked open very quickly.you just need to open the blade a little and then flick your wrist and it clicks into place.with a JJ Martinez knife with a 9 inch blade that would be pretty impressive :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:02 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
The ratcheting Navajas and the none ratcheting confuse people. The ratcheting ones that I have seen in Spain do not always lock, they are just harder to open and close....although some do actually lock and are very hard to close as well. The none Ratcheting do lock.the flap on the top of the handle is used to seperate the lock just like in a lockback...and similar to the way a James Dean knife unlocks..one trick with these is that they can be flicked open very quickly.you just need to open the blade a little and then flick your wrist and it clicks into place.with a JJ Martinez knife with a 9 inch blade that would be pretty impressive :lol:

And here I thought that my Camillus CUDA MAXX Gibbs 7" folder was an impressive beast. :D Given your description, does the non-ratcheting navaja qualfy as a "gravity knife" under British law or do you all not have that sort of foolishness over there?

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1 John 1:5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:13 pm 
No we do have that foolishness here :cry: ...It would really depend on getting caught importing or carrying one. Many collectors have had knives seized by Customs which were ordinary folders but which could be flicked open.....stuff like the Benchmade company make with "Axis locks"....and they were told that they were Gravity knives.it's a bit like assisted openers of which I have a couple, until we get a test case in the courts they are perfectly legal :D .it was a test case that made lock knives illegal :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Hi:

Well, I haven't got into researching to much on these matters except it seems that Britain war on private ownership of weapons has been going on a very long time.

Unfortuantely, this War is not limited to Britain.

I noted that the NRA said that the British pistol team had to take the Chunnel to pratice in France.

I don't think the French are very far behing, perhaps, Jorvik, you can at least tell us your impression of the Gun Laws in Britain and France and continue your discuss regarding Najavas etc..

We had a contributor that knew a great deal about these weapons, but I think his contribution would not be easy to find.

When I remember his---oh ----his name for the Forum was 'Snickersnee', at cut and thrust weapon when the word is not used for a handles on a forum.

In the people's Republic of Massachussetts, assisted opening blades are legal and, similar to your situation, 'Switch Blades" are not.

In point of fact i do not think that the so called Commonwealth of Massachusttes (it is not technically a state--this goes back to the way the colonies were chartered) is very far behind in its quest for the Utopia of an Unarmed Citizen State.


But, as I said, when I was an FFL dealer (which privilege was taken from me by one line in the so called "Assualt Rifle" bill in 1998) I came into possession of a Colt Military and police revolver.

Apparently the campaign on Private ownership of sidearms in Britain had, as far back as 1940, become rather successfull, because Britain had to appeal to the ordinary citizens in the US to assist in arming the Home Guard.

Well, this is a true story, but you will have to look up the numbers, but the story is true.

I have posted it a long time ago.

In any event, when I purchased the M&P from the individual, it was worn free of blusing and had a tag attached to which said "returned to the donor with thanks, the card was then signed by an officer of the unit of the Home Guard.

I am sure I have a picture in the file.

I am afraid if we picked and chose our allies on the REAL status of weapons control, we would run short of Allies quicky. Not that I disagree with what your're saying.

Australia's laws on gun control have been repugnant since the "Tasmanian" massacre some years ago.

In America it can fairly be said, that in many states and on the broadband national scene, candidates have been advised to "Keep Quiet" on Gun Contol.

So then we get a presidential candidate actually campaigning in a Gun store.

As chance would have, when I was a dealer (I apologize as I hae told this story before) a client in Virginia (Roanoke) who bought many fine collectibles and restored weapons from me. The arms in question had to be sent to and passed thru the FFL books of an FFL dealer, In this case, R-------- Firearms in Roanoke.

As luck would have it (bad luck) , the killer at the Virginia Tech shootings purchased hi weapons at tha shop.

The dealer had not done anything wrong in either case.

Virginia did not at the time require checks, in their instant background check system, on self admission or court ordered admision to a mental facility or that that the 'finding' of the court requiring the admission.

Of course, since I am not totally against gun control, just leery of those who propose it, what should have happened was that his 'check' should have put his purchase on hold at the state level.

The Federal Instant background check system operated as NCIS by the FBI may only address Federal matters.

But that didn't happen.

FWIW in the Commonwealth of Mass. if you admit yourself to a mental institution under certain statutes (might not apply to self admissions to private insitutions)your License to Carry becomes an endangered species.

More later.

J (smiley deleted, not appropriate)

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Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:51 pm 
Well I'm a man of my word :D ...So hopefully I will always speak the truth as I know it, and in the past I have objected to much which has been said about gun control in the UK, but only because folks have got their facts wrong and misrepresented stuff to try and appear like they were right and everybody else was wrong 8O .....now I can't be doing with that, but I can say what I see ( I work in law enforcement , although I'm not a LEO)...fact is the UK has got it badly wrong with gun control because the criminals can still get guns, the idea of a socialist utopia were folks are good and polite to each other only works with gunowners, because they have an ultimate deterant.but when you ban handguns then it is only the law abiding that suffer.............think of this , if all the folks in the UK who were responsible citizens, worked and had kids etc were told by law that they must have a handgun....then how do you think this would effect guncrime? :roll: ...fact is I don't think it would effect gun crime one bit.because it is all the little schittbags who committ crimes who illegally possess the firearms who are doing all the damage.not the legal owners ( and there are no legal owners now :cry: )...............and we have the most monitored society on earth and tonny b (schittbag) liar wanted us all to have ID cards, and now his deputy brown wants the same..why??.just let us defend ourselves and we'd be fine............New world order and all that!!.that's what we are fighting. :x


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 Post subject: Agreement
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:09 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Hi J:

Yes, you do sound like a man of your word.

Yes, things are out of hand from our point of view regrading persons defending themselves, with or without a weapon.

Regaridng this 'Commonwealth" the lenght 3.5" often comes up in reference to the legality of certain blades.

Technically, this is only the sze limitation over which the knife is considered a "deadly weapon". So, actually, one can own such a weapon, but if used in an assualt, it is considerd a deadly weapon for purposes of deteminal the crime and, in some cases the sentencing.

This actually makes a bit of sense, but not to much. This type of language is used to set sentence maximum in the Criminal code re: theft--when I was practicing it was Grand Larceny if over $250.

In mass. one is obliged to "retreat" if threatened and/or search out any reasonable way to escape before using force, and the force has to be reasonable.

I have often asked --as do you I am sure---who is to say what is reasonable. I alway advised my friends and clients, if asked, to make sure they said they had no way to escape and that they were in fear for their life if they even turned their back to flee.

I This "retreat doctrine' did not come from statutory law, but evolved out of cases in the courts.

When a case came down hinting that a person might have to flee their own home I must say the "fit hit the shan" and the late Governor King got himself elected partially because he said he would be sure a law was passed saying that Never would a person be obliged to flee from his own home.

After election, at least in this respect, he kept his word.

Otherwise it is rather a grim situation here for us. The Federa "Assualt Weapons Law" went away, but the state one here in Mass. did not. I aplogize because I know I have mentioned this before.

This merely means that manufacturers will no longer make "assualt weapons" which comply with Massachusetts Law.

Massachusett's 1998 Assualt Weapons Law mirrored the Federal 1994 Law, and the Sun did not set on it as i did on the Federal Law.

At the time the Democratic Liberals could not muster the vote to extend it and/or make a finding that continuing the BAN had a significant effect on violent crime.

So, I suppose there was a bit of common sense shown here, although it was also a bit of a 'party line" thing, but that "Sunset Provision's" action made it more difficult for gun owner's in Mass..

I have no positive feeling about weapons control except to say that reasonable laws are ok with me. However, what I think is reasonable is quite different from what the Liberal elements in out respective countries think.

I especially like the "I don't beleive in Guns" phrase. If one used it on me i invariable would provoke a bit of a quarrel by saying "yes, and I don't believe in bad weather, death or taxes".

So, I quite understand your frustration with your politicians.

i was particularly horrified when a British Veteran, a WWII sniper (and a good one it seems) was stripped of the sniper version MKIV no. 1 Lee Enfield Rifle which he had been allowed to keep on his mustering out in 1946.

I do repeat, however, that the US has had a nasty habit of ignoring a 'necessary ally's' position on Gun Control.

After all, if we came countenance Death Squads (the people didn't I m ust say) in anti Communist Guerilla Warfare in El Salvador, we are not likely to distress Britain, Australia, France or Germany (examples) over their respective positions on persoanls weapons ownership.

It is just a sad truth the this is the case.

My sympathies for sure J!!!.

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 Post subject: Stilettos
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Oh:

yes, although they are not defeined, which is part of the problem im this Commonwealth under Ch. 269 s 10 "stilletoes" are not legal.

I don't have the case law to hand so, if the "stilletto" is defined, it is not in the 'body' of the Statute, which is 100 years old and has not been updated.

According to the liberal media, Democratic politicians, fo the time being, have been told to 'keep their mouths shut' about Gun Control after the bad spanking the Dems took in 1994.

Part of the bitterness is that Slick Williie implied, or we incorrectecly inferred, that he was not in favor of 'gun control'.

So little is being said by pols on the issue.

The Commonwealth's Goverrnor has introduced two bills:

One to limit purchases to one gun a month (stupid as everyone in the household has a permit)

and the other to outlaw private sales. Stupid because private sales have to be reported on FA-10s within 7 days of the transfer.

If one is not going to comply with that, why shjould anyone suppose that the second proposed law is going to be complied with.

I am 'stuck' with several items that dealers cannot transfer under the AG's regs, which tie into the date of the 1998 Law, as the dealers cannot sell them.

I can sell them personally-or out of state on the gun world's equivalent of e bay, but they were legal when purchased, and the design in this case is 97 years old and one that served in the US militrary until the M-9 (agh!!) was adopted.

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 Post subject: Lend Lease Colt
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Here is the leand lease Colt although I posted it elsewhere


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