Webb's "New Militarism"

JOHN THURSTON is back and eager to discuss Western Martial Arts, especially relating to its history.

Moderator: JOHN THURSTON

Postby f.Channell » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:20 pm

My own ancestor Susannah Martin was hung as a Salem witch. It was her third trial for it.

Was Sadam a witchhunt? Be interesting to see the story history will tell.

F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
User avatar
f.Channell
 
Posts: 3542
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

Postby Hugh » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:30 pm

f.Channell wrote:My own ancestor Susannah Martin was hung as a Salem witch. It was her third trial for it.

Was Sadam a witchhunt? Be interesting to see the story history will tell.

F.

Gone but not forgotten, apparently. Please see the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susannah_Martin

I like the Whittier poem from which the small quote was taken. To read the entirety, see http://www.poetic-greetings.com/p.php?pdid=6173
Trying to Walk in the Light, Hugh
1 John 1:5
Hugh
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Virginia

Postby jorvik » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:33 pm

ok
The reason that I posted about Hugh's religion is that the two things seem to be in conflict. In my book anyway :?
"thou shalt not kill" being the first one and the second being "though shalt not bare false witness" ( and I apply that to bush and blairs lies about Iraq)

but consider this, suppose that I was from Germany and my family had a long and distinguished history of military service. Could I then justify being a death camp commandant?..........a little extreme comparison perhaps, but at some point there is going to be a conflict of interests. This war was brought to us by lies.horrible lies, and it's horrible that folks with such power and authority should use them.look at tony blair.or tony b.liar as he is known by many..raking in all the blood money that he can for supporting bush............when prime minister of the UK he was badly indebt.............now he's a multi millionaire..he didn't serve he took :evil:

look at this ..for some more "baring false witness"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTpZYH2x9-k&NR=1
jorvik
 

Postby Van Canna » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:54 pm

"thou shalt not kill"

This is not what is in the bible?

"Thou Shall Not Murder" is more precise.
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 43772
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Postby f.Channell » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:11 pm

Hi Van, In other places the Bible states if you do this or that you will surely be put to death. While Hugh and I are discussing our witch relatives the Bible states "thou shall not suffer a witch to live". I suppose the bible being as big as it is there's something for everyone. Good and ugly alike.

There's a book "A witch in the Family" avaiable online or at stores about my 10th grandmother, Susannah Martin. Most people don't realize by the time you go back 20 generations you have 1.4 million grandparents. You have 8 great grandparents alone. 16 great-great grandparents. so Hugh and I share our witch relatives with 100's of thousands of people. I like Susannah because she told off Cotton Mather. Tough old gal.

Quakers

Quakers were key people in the drive west, and also into Canada being persecuted by everyone, including our cuddly puritan pilgrims. The pilgrims wanted religious freedom, but evidently no one else could have it. Quakers arrived only a few years after the pilgrims.
Quakers also aided escaped slaves as they left southern plantations. Quaker meeting houses were key stops in the underground railroad.
I'm sure Hugh knows of other great things they achieved. But just a few mentions to keep their accomplishments in perspective.

Frankly I'm looking over old posts and don't see where Jorvik and Hugh disagree? The religious principles stated belong to all Christians. Probably in the Koran also.

F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
User avatar
f.Channell
 
Posts: 3542
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

Postby jorvik » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:46 pm

There are various translations of the Bible.and various changes to it as well ..........by the catholic church.
The King James bible is translated from the Greek.the catholic bible is translated from the latin. In my bible it is "thou shalt not kill"...and that would be indiscriminate murder..............as in a war.However, if somebody robs and murders they have then broken God's laws.and the punishment is death.
What I don't believe in is this war in Iraq. It is based on lies.from blair and bush and they profit not only from the deaths of arabs but from the deaths of our armed forces...........who amongst us now would be so foolish as to believe that Iran had weapons of mass destruction, or posed a threat to us.and yet blair is saying this now....after the lies of Iraq,
jorvik
 

Postby Hugh » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:00 pm

jorvik wrote:ok
The reason that I posted about Hugh's religion is that the two things seem to be in conflict. In my book anyway :?
"thou shalt not kill" being the first one and the second being "though shalt not bare false witness" ( and I apply that to bush and blairs lies about Iraq)

I believe that I answered that point very well. We all come from different places in our spiritual journies and, thus, our journies will be different. William Penn asked George Fox about wearing a sword as that was required when one in his position went to the Court. Fox's response is said to have been to "wear it as long as thee can." The result of Penn's wearing a sword was that he was able to get a Royal Grant of a colony wherein he could establish freedom of religion for all, Pennsylvania.

but consider this, suppose that I was from Germany and my family had a long and distinguished history of military service. Could I then justify being a death camp commandant?

I will answer with two names: Colonel Count Claus Schenck von Stauffenberg and Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. I might also suggest that you read Dietrich Bonhoeffer's Letters and Papers From Prison to form some understanding to the anti-NAZI Christian resistance in Germany.

..........a little extreme comparison perhaps, but at some point there is going to be a conflict of interests. This war was brought to us by lies.horrible lies, and it's horrible that folks with such power and authority should use them.look at tony blair.or tony b.liar as he is known by many..raking in all the blood money that he can for supporting bush............when prime minister of the UK he was badly indebt.............now he's a multi millionaire..he didn't serve he took :evil:

look at this ..for some more "baring false witness"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTpZYH2x9-k&NR=1

Try reading Robert Harris' latest novel, Ghost which addresses Mr. Blair's problem very well. I would also note that I resent your implication that I supported Mr. Bush's stupid invasion of Iraq. I opposed it from the "git go." The problem we have is that, unlike VietNam, the bloodbath that will follow our departure will not be limited to Iraq. It will follow us home to America, to the UK, and to Western Europe because the idiots who are pushing the terror there are doing so to train killers for that greater purpose.
Trying to Walk in the Light, Hugh
1 John 1:5
Hugh
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Virginia

Postby Van Canna » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:06 pm

According to Mas Ayoob
Biblical scholars tell us that in the original Hebrew_ the 6th commandment was ‘thou shall not murder’

The scripture accepts killing undertaking in self defense of certain entities including innocent life
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 43772
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Postby Hugh » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:18 pm

f.Channell wrote:Hi Van, In other places the Bible states if you do this or that you will surely be put to death. While Hugh and I are discussing our witch relatives the Bible states "thou shall not suffer a witch to live". I suppose the bible being as big as it is there's something for everyone. Good and ugly alike.

There's a book "A witch in the Family" avaiable online or at stores about my 10th grandmother, Susannah Martin. Most people don't realize by the time you go back 20 generations you have 1.4 million grandparents. You have 8 great grandparents alone. 16 great-great grandparents. so Hugh and I share our witch relatives with 100's of thousands of people. I like Susannah because she told off Cotton Mather. Tough old gal.

Quakers

Quakers were key people in the drive west, and also into Canada being persecuted by everyone, including our cuddly puritan pilgrims. The pilgrims wanted religious freedom, but evidently no one else could have it. Quakers arrived only a few years after the pilgrims.
Quakers also aided escaped slaves as they left southern plantations. Quaker meeting houses were key stops in the underground railroad.
I'm sure Hugh knows of other great things they achieved. But just a few mentions to keep their accomplishments in perspective.

Frankly I'm looking over old posts and don't see where Jorvik and Hugh disagree? The religious principles stated belong to all Christians. Probably in the Koran also.

F.


Do you want another tough old gal? Try Mary Dyer.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nwa/dyer.html
Trying to Walk in the Light, Hugh
1 John 1:5
Hugh
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Virginia

Postby Van Canna » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:45 pm

Yep...life is one big f_up :wink:

Don't you wish you could get to The Etiology and Elaboration of Flagrant Mistranslations? :lol:
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 43772
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Postby f.Channell » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:00 am

Hi Van,
Slave owners used to use passages from the Bible to keep their slaves serving their masters.

Yes Hugh I have read about Mary Dyer before, I had a Mary Dyer in my ancestry, not a blood relative but a 4th wife of a grandfather. No relation though.

Here is another interesting grandfather,
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/vt/county/w ... igory.html
Massacred by the Indians in Worcester Mass. His sons would later be Indian scouts leading raids against the French and Indians of Canada.
My great, great, great grandmother was a Sargent, descended from him.

F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
User avatar
f.Channell
 
Posts: 3542
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

A Devil Found

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:15 pm

No Saddam was no witch hunt and although the War was flawed, this devil was done.

I am not trying to reopen arguments about it, Saddam was a murdering Devil and was dealt with.

Despite all other valid critcisms-he was a Devil Found.


I have Phibrick's "Mayflower" which I believe did mention the Fuller family (Thurstons were Mass. Bay)
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA

Postby Hugh » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:33 pm

John, there is no question that Saddam was an evil bastard but the real issue is whether his control of the fractionalizing tendencies of Iraq was worse that the looming bloody civil war that we let loose when we opened Pandora's box with our invasion.
Trying to Walk in the Light, Hugh
1 John 1:5
Hugh
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Virginia

Postby Hugh » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:38 pm

BTW, my adopted daughter, Teresa, found it very funny when a visiting person at her American history class got all excited over her name and said that she was descended from Captain Thomas Fuller, one of the Mayflower colonists. Since she is very aware that she was adopted from El Salvador, she found it rather amusing, as did her friends who knew her background. I did tell her that the person was correct about the name, however, and that my family was descended from Thomas Fuller.
Trying to Walk in the Light, Hugh
1 John 1:5
Hugh
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Virginia

Postby jorvik » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:49 pm

Quote
According to Mas Ayoob


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Biblical scholars tell us that in the original Hebrew_ the 6th commandment was ‘thou shall not murder’

The scripture accepts killing undertaking in self defense of certain entities including innocent life
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry Van.never heard of him :oops: .......has he written many books about the bible :?
jorvik
 

PreviousNext

Return to Western Martial Arts & History

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest