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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:13 pm 
JimHawkins wrote:
The problem is when hyper-extension occurs which means that the elbow has traveled past the straight point and injured the joint.


This is what happened to me doing that Sanseirui move. I basically snapped my elbow over powering the movement.

I'm not sure i'm following you about turning off the forearm though Jim. Do you mean flexing?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:52 pm 
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The Bronze Dago wrote:
JimHawkins wrote:
The problem is when hyper-extension occurs which means that the elbow has traveled past the straight point and injured the joint.


I'm not sure i'm following you about turning off the forearm though Jim. Do you mean flexing?


The action of the forearm is to hold the fist in place. This is always the case but with the locked up wrist; Less forearm power is needed to maintain what should be greater fist integrity. There are more details that can wait until later.

What gets turned off is everything but the forearm muscles which maintain fist integrity. Remember, turning the fist and forearm into a single unit, like an M1A1 main gun projectile.

The body is like the powder charge that is loaded behind the round. Like that charge, you fire all the muscles in the body at once transferring energy into the projectile and then they turn off just at the end of max power transfer, an exact point you have to find yourself, but it’s before full extension. Because the driving power is turned off before full extension the arm will travel as a ballistic object and will not hyper-extend the elbow or loose power needlessly due to pulling the strike to prevent injury.

The key is to explode all the energy in the body and release it in the shortest period of time possible. Once that is done, turn off all your ‘power muscles.’ Fajing, like a dog puts its whole body into shaking the water out of its coat, he twists using all the muscles in his body in one, fast twist and then is perfectly at rest, like a violent sneeze a super brief yet complete release of energy, and in the next instant you are completely at ease.

This conserves lots of energy as well because you only use energy when it’s needed or useful; which is a hell of a lot less than most folks will, most are constantly using energy for no particular reason and run out of gas 3 or 4 times faster than they should.

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M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:01 am 
Jim, I tried out your punches tonight at the gym. I could not get a good feel for them up high, but when I went in close to the bag, I liked the way it felt. Turns out it was because I was already kind of used to it because of doing Sanchin. The kata opens up with vertical nukites that turn into fists. It was that "Deja-Vu" thing.... 20 years of doing that exercise has really had an impact on how my body moves (and how it doesn't). what was interesting is that the higher I brought them, the more alien they felt to me (and less powerful). Did I mention that some folks where looking at me like I was a homo while I was doing this? hah hah


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:34 am 
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:lol: Funny...

Not sure why they were looking funny though.. Because you used vertical fists?

What did you try to work?

Maybe we're loosing something in the 'fog of the board.'

You should be able to use the reverse wrist locking thing without it being too apparent with the gloves on. Remember you can apply this reverse lock to your regular punches, just be aware of the slight change in the power line, and your wrists shouldn't feel weak any more, but take it slow. Also when you hit the bag be sure not to push it, instead you should hear a nice thwap sound that should ‘jolt’ the bag as you blast it. The key is to just try making the connection with the locked wrist / bottom of the fist work, that alone shouldn’t win too many strange looks.

Later add in what if anything you think might help, you might check out Bruce’s Lead Straight from his JKD. For the vertical fist jab for example, it should be easier to make more power if you let the fist rise, (keep the elbow under) just as if you were driving it under the chin and up through to the back/top of the head, leading with the bottom of the fist; The wrist locks up as the fist goes out and squeezes on impact.

In the forms the vertical fist starts, as we say, from the heart (center) and the focus point is around your / his chin height – the elbow pushes /snaps the forearm/fist arrow out and then the ligaments will retract it.. Just use what’s natural for you and try firing them from/to or off/to the center.

The chain punches translate well when used with flexibility.. You can do a jab, rear straight combo that is so fast because of the structure, your rear can come in just a micro beat behind the jab as their rear hand parries.

And you can reek havoc with those elbows under the punches to jam them.

Lots of fun stuff to play with.

_________________
Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:46 am 
JimHawkins wrote:
:lol: Funny...

Not sure why they were looking funny though.. Because you used vertical fists?


Well... the culture in a boxing gym is ALOT different than a Dojo. There is no spirit of budo, or chi, or anything like that. In the gym where I am training, the back wall has several flags hanging down, there is of course, an American flag, but next to that is the Puerto Rican flag, the Mexican Flag, the Columbian flag, and as of last Friday, there is now an Italian Flag (there are actually 3 Italians training there, two from NY and one from NJ). There is alot of cultural diversity in this club and everyone is respectful of each other, but it's not the place where you want to try something new or what might be percieved as "wacky". I think i'll give it another shot on Sunday when I work out in the privacy of my own garage.. hah hah....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:26 am 
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Location: on the path.
Hey Rick: PM.

Check out the article "physics of a Karate Punch" on Van's forum.

2G


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:28 am 
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I guess it's cultural and personal.

I've worked with and taught two Boxers here to varying degrees.

One of them has hungrily trained just about everything I've shown him and turned it into a weapon. The other guy looks at everything and says he can't use it cause it's not "Boxing." :lol: :roll:

Sound familiar..?

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Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:36 am 
holy crap! Your right!! I just can't escape it.. ha hha


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:27 am 
Tony:

Sent you an email (if your email on your profile is up-to-date if not PM me.)


Good discussion.

I hope you all enjoyed the article I imagine it will take a little to read through.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:16 am 
It was great Rick, I sent it to a couple of friends... thanks for writing it.


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 Post subject: WCK punches
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:24 am 
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Very, very interesting stuff Jim. Personally I don't know why you'd punch with a fist at all on a heavy bag.. open hand shots will never mess up your hands or wrists. (or rarely anyways)

Cheers

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The Dragon likes to twist, wind, and coil. No rules apply; an attack will occur when you least expect it.


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 Post subject: Re: WCK punches
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:42 am 
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Ruiner wrote:
Personally I don't know why you'd punch with a fist at all on a heavy bag.. open hand shots will never mess up your hands or wrists.


Well Tony has to...as these are the tools of the trade in Boxing.

Each of the hand tools have a special purpose and often a best range. In WCK fists can do things that other tools can't, we often use them for entry to protect the fingers and they can move through a smaller space than can a palm, just as a WCK nukite can do things that a fist cannot and a palm or side palm has its place...

So if fists are to be used then I believe in training them on whatever you like to hit.. Traditionally you work the fists on the sandbag, the jong and people...

_________________
Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:16 pm 
I don't know about open hand shots.... until someone actually knocks me down with one (or more) i'll remain a disbeliever. I've witnessed people grimace under my fist, so I know it works and can be effective with alot of training, so I stick with what I know. Yeah, you can jam someones nose with a bushiken, but why not just punch it? whats the difference? Besides, a nice punch will make that cracking sounds.. hah hah...


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