Yakusoku Kumite by OKK

A place where this subject can be evaluated and discussed. No "bashing" allowed. "Tell us what YOU do"

Yakusoku Kumite by OKK

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:24 pm

Hi:

It is, or it should be no secret that Yakusoko OKK wise has three interesting points:

1. It respects Kyu Kumite to the point that at least one point was lifted intact into the new advanced Kumite.

2. It follows the theory that every point must "finish", ie: the Defender gets the last shot.

3. It does not encourage the 'circling" motion (with the exception of point five of OKK"S) that creeps into "Dan" (also a Yakusoku) Kumite.

As a bit of old/new news the "arm pounding" of Kontikitai is not used at all as a blocking drill, but just as a conditioning drill. Some Sensei's views on Arm pounding I find a bit 'sanguine".

In the first hit of the sequence, the candidates had a marked tendency to hit the Liver 8 pressure point, or very close thereto,

I adhere to the theory that this should be a conditioning excecise, but 'whaling away" on or near to a pressure point is not conducive to anyone's "condition" . When I question the student's Sensei on this matter, the response was "they should know better". so each of us must make a choice, let the student injure themselves, and they will learn what they learn from it, or explain that the extra time taken before the strike in

Kontikitai is intended to allow the student to get into the habit of not hitting the same place too often and not try and condition some Kyusho points at all.

Some points can be protected by buling callus, calcium deposits (a difficult trick) or muscle over the point.

But such points or few and many that can be so protected from a strike are still vurnerable to grasping and twisting attacks.

J
Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA

re arm conditioning. . .

Postby gmattson » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:01 pm

I subscribe to the philosophy of training that. . .

what you practice you will perform.

Watching someone throw a punch at you is a very bad practice.

Block that sucker! :)
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
User avatar
gmattson
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6039
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Mount Dora, Florida

"Block that Sucker"

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:54 pm

A valid viewpoint to be sure.

However the step back should provide the necessary protective distant, and if does not, then, by all means, "block that sucker".

When the party to do the block/conditioning strike steps back he should block the incoming strike if the latter extends into "his zone" too far.

Part of my point also is that in arm pounding you are 'watching that strike" it is your only concern. In T'ai chi they say 'let your eyes grow soft" . this is seemingly quite a jump from 'glare in the eyes with fast hands".

What is happening is allowing your eye to 'disuse' the focusing poing point of the eye ie: the fovea and allow full vision.

So I submit "block that sucka" is more appropriately and completely applied in prearranged Kumite.

Note that even when you make a mistake and forget the prescribed block, something occurs to the mind and some one of your quiver full of blocks jumps out and does the job.

If Arm pounding is to be completely practiced as a conditioning exercise, both parties had better be on the same page.

So the first lesson is properly establishing the correct distancing so that, in theory, the step is a block, and the conditioning strike is used for that purpose and the striker can pay attention to hitting different points on the arm being conditioned.

You ALL better know what page the other fella is on before you assume it is safe to just 'step back' and start trading punches.

Most of the time you can tell just by looking what is likely to happen: someone with an attitude, somene who is overaggressive, someone who wants to look especially good (he thinks) by showing his partner up, someone who is really quite anxious to hurt you, and he, my friends, will try to hurt you of bo the 'to' and the 'fro' on Kontikitai.

Of course, i suppose it is easier to forget all these complicated concepts and just block fast.

Or, you can watch your partner's arm extension and depth of step carefully, then lay the lumber on various point on the arm.

But, Sensei GEM is right, until all the "protocals" mentioned have been established----just protect yourself, of course.

J
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA

Postby f.Channell » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:30 pm

Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
User avatar
f.Channell
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

Thanks Fred

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:03 am

The Yakusoku Daiti Kumite is ok---but it is anyone guess how close the Sansei Rui Bunkai is to how they do it now.

J
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA

Conditioning

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:09 am

In the latest edist on OKK's practice of Kontiktai, it appears to have stirred up a bit of a duststorm.

Quite needlessly.

if the individuals wish to practice it as a controlled condition drill, they will.

If they wish to turn it into a brawl, they will.

If they decide to inflist on each other the maximum amount of pain --they will.

In my dojo---they DON'T do 2 or 3.

What the heck, I ain't the boss.

I could go to the head dojo Saturday and, in all likelyhood, it will be practiced pretty much as we have seen over the years.

John
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA

Postby f.Channell » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:40 pm

I prefer the Okinawan method of not blocking the strikes. It allows one to work on the body mechanics that power the movements of those blocks. Also heightens the development of the conditioning of both trainers. With the kumite and bunkai there's ample opportunity to work on blocking.

I don't still practice this kumite as a set. But do sometimes take a point of it or two and work it. I prefer the takedown in this set to the traditional one in Dan. I know it's effectiveness in Judo competition and have both been a victim and used it. :lol:
O-soto Gari as it is called is the #1 most winning takedown in International competition.

F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
User avatar
f.Channell
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

Osotogari

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:11 am

This throw and another dangerous takedown has now been added to OKK"S Sanseirui Bankai.

I still prefer the one that follows the kata in a logical manner as Seisan Bunkai does.

Osotogari as mentioned appears in Point ten of OKK's Yakusoku.

I agree with your analysis of the use of Arm pounding as a aid to studying body dynamics.

Tommorrow I look forward to a morning of Push hands, push legs, push thighs and push hips.

:lol:

I worked less when I was working.

John
Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA

Postby f.Channell » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:07 pm

What is a danger takedown?

F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
User avatar
f.Channell
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

sorry and common throws

Postby JOHN THURSTON » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:15 am

A highly dangerous "teakdowon."

As Fred had laboriously done, much to his credit, is memorize at least 100 Judo Techniques. We tried to get a BJJ champ to the Dojo, but this is not LA, Vegas, Miami or New York.

He loved the Dojo, but could not pay us one cent.

As an 0-1 Visa holder, he and his family are not allowed to work, except in his championship field.

I liked him so well I do not think I ever would have charged him, but he had to move on as he felt he could not take money from other folks when they were also struggling.

The Three "Danger throws/takdowns" most commonly used in Karate sparring appear to be osoto gari, deashi berai and ipponse nage (the latter danger throw is , to be sure, not a 'takedown" but maybe the core thow of Jigure Kano's gentle way Ju do.

I can only suppose he detoxified Jiu Jitsu to the point he thought it could be practiced in a manner tht would not result in "breakage".

If will now go to my library and see if i can find my book on Foot throwws for karate, It is a bit dated-but so am I.

J
"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"
JOHN THURSTON
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA


Return to Fighting Drills

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron