Tony, Chuck?
What do either of you know about the 47 gig Seagate Elite?
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Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
47 gig ultra SCSI
Moderator: Scott Danziger
47 gig ultra SCSI
Uh, It's more hard drive the most of us need 
SCSI flavor is "UW"
5 year warranty (seems to be a Seagate standard)
4meg cache'
5400rpm spindle speed
13ms seek avg.
5.25" format full height(3.25") 7 pounds!
Cost appears to be reasonable. `bout $16 a gig
May be a stress on the power supply.
Thats about it.
Chuck
SCSI flavor is "UW"
5 year warranty (seems to be a Seagate standard)
4meg cache'
5400rpm spindle speed
13ms seek avg.
5.25" format full height(3.25") 7 pounds!
Cost appears to be reasonable. `bout $16 a gig
May be a stress on the power supply.
Thats about it.
Chuck
-
Allen M.
47 gig ultra SCSI
Hello Chuck,
Seems like only a few years ago I considered a KayPro 2MHz with a 5Meg RLL HD more than anyone would need until I changed it to 4MHz and doubled the size of the drive, etc...
I am already going for a Coppermine, but the 733s are on allocation and it won't be until at least January before they are available.
SCSI and the capacity may be more than what most need, but these are main requirements for a new tool which need to be satisfied:
1) CAPACITY: My new book has upward of 2,000 graphics with a some as large as 1 meg. Simple arithmetic. I have 2 jumbo EIDE drives on my DELL now, 27+17 is about the right size. Capacity is also required for music making.
2) NEED FOR SPEED: The family musician is composing on the PC. EIDE drives just don't have it. The fastest IDE drive in the world can't touch a SCSI. The SCSI/NT combination makes everything a Cakewalk.
3) SOFTWARE CONSULTING: For large programs that can take hours to build on a regular system, a fast SCSI NT machine can cut that time into minutes. I have to fight boredom and the sandman waiting for stuff to build sometimes, so I can debug it. A fast machine gives me one leg up when I request to do something at home which further translates into $$$.
Sometimes I think the software companies and the PC manufacturers are in a recursive conspiracy. You get software for your PC, then a faster PC comes along so you speed up your operations with it. Software designers aren't too happy so with that so they release backward incompatible software with unnecessary features that slow both you and the PC down. Aha! A new PC is on the market to make the new software go faster. And it goes on and on, and on. One continuous set of neverending waves.
Time goes fast. Maybe 15 years ago I had the above machine with a wordprocessor, the world's premier at that time, that would fit COMPLETELY on one 5-1/4" floppy AND hold all the word processing files to boot (no pun).
And it was fast.
Around the same time I had super-fast compilers, again the worlds best and fastest, at $29.99 each Turbo Pascal and Turbo C, and a "baby" CP/M Ada compiler.
They were fast bug-free, REALLY bug free tools and productivity soared.
God created the earth and all the wonderous living things on it in six days and then he rested. On the seventh day, someone created a new operating system and no one's rested since.
Which reminds me, the other day I saw WordPerfect for Linux. What OTHER Linux treasures are out there? GNU++, a little webpaging, a modem, and a trusty set of compilers and a speedy system are all one needs. If there are enough goodies out there I could see myself abandoning windows.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
Seems like only a few years ago I considered a KayPro 2MHz with a 5Meg RLL HD more than anyone would need until I changed it to 4MHz and doubled the size of the drive, etc...
I am already going for a Coppermine, but the 733s are on allocation and it won't be until at least January before they are available.
SCSI and the capacity may be more than what most need, but these are main requirements for a new tool which need to be satisfied:
1) CAPACITY: My new book has upward of 2,000 graphics with a some as large as 1 meg. Simple arithmetic. I have 2 jumbo EIDE drives on my DELL now, 27+17 is about the right size. Capacity is also required for music making.
2) NEED FOR SPEED: The family musician is composing on the PC. EIDE drives just don't have it. The fastest IDE drive in the world can't touch a SCSI. The SCSI/NT combination makes everything a Cakewalk.
3) SOFTWARE CONSULTING: For large programs that can take hours to build on a regular system, a fast SCSI NT machine can cut that time into minutes. I have to fight boredom and the sandman waiting for stuff to build sometimes, so I can debug it. A fast machine gives me one leg up when I request to do something at home which further translates into $$$.
Sometimes I think the software companies and the PC manufacturers are in a recursive conspiracy. You get software for your PC, then a faster PC comes along so you speed up your operations with it. Software designers aren't too happy so with that so they release backward incompatible software with unnecessary features that slow both you and the PC down. Aha! A new PC is on the market to make the new software go faster. And it goes on and on, and on. One continuous set of neverending waves.
Time goes fast. Maybe 15 years ago I had the above machine with a wordprocessor, the world's premier at that time, that would fit COMPLETELY on one 5-1/4" floppy AND hold all the word processing files to boot (no pun).
And it was fast.
Around the same time I had super-fast compilers, again the worlds best and fastest, at $29.99 each Turbo Pascal and Turbo C, and a "baby" CP/M Ada compiler.
They were fast bug-free, REALLY bug free tools and productivity soared.
God created the earth and all the wonderous living things on it in six days and then he rested. On the seventh day, someone created a new operating system and no one's rested since.
Which reminds me, the other day I saw WordPerfect for Linux. What OTHER Linux treasures are out there? GNU++, a little webpaging, a modem, and a trusty set of compilers and a speedy system are all one needs. If there are enough goodies out there I could see myself abandoning windows.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
47 gig ultra SCSI
Allen,
Agree 110% on the SCSI speed and NT ability to make it hum along! or is that adaptec doing it?
For the digital musican in the family SCSI is it! also a good DAT machine.
Yeah Intel is having troubles getting the lead out, it's pushed a few Companies over to the Athlon camp. Plus that nasty math thing has poped up again.
I've seen some music/graphic workstations in the area of 512megs memory with 80+gigs of drive space of course they also said "SUN Microsystems" so to get a 2nd loan on the house is out of the question
I understand that speed=$$$ both ways
I too support that theroy on the the faster we go the slow we can make it with new software.
Ahhh the good days, a caddy of floppys (5.25") and you could do it all! sigh if only it was that simple...
Tell you what the Unix flavors abound and they have 90% of what we really need.
Corel has an entire office package for Redhat (free). There is tons of stuff out there just you have to look and it's not that hard to find.
Hmmm that be an interesting thread to start.
Unix What flavor and what apps do you have?
I've liked seagate since the early mid 80's when i had an AMIGA, ahh a machine at 8mhz that shamed clones at 20mhz and did it all!
Any way, Yes i'd go for it then! There is a web site thay will give you free external set up on the drive for $750 plsu s/h.
Agree 110% on the SCSI speed and NT ability to make it hum along! or is that adaptec doing it?
For the digital musican in the family SCSI is it! also a good DAT machine.
Yeah Intel is having troubles getting the lead out, it's pushed a few Companies over to the Athlon camp. Plus that nasty math thing has poped up again.
I've seen some music/graphic workstations in the area of 512megs memory with 80+gigs of drive space of course they also said "SUN Microsystems" so to get a 2nd loan on the house is out of the question
I understand that speed=$$$ both ways
I too support that theroy on the the faster we go the slow we can make it with new software.
Ahhh the good days, a caddy of floppys (5.25") and you could do it all! sigh if only it was that simple...
Tell you what the Unix flavors abound and they have 90% of what we really need.
Corel has an entire office package for Redhat (free). There is tons of stuff out there just you have to look and it's not that hard to find.
Hmmm that be an interesting thread to start.
Unix What flavor and what apps do you have?
I've liked seagate since the early mid 80's when i had an AMIGA, ahh a machine at 8mhz that shamed clones at 20mhz and did it all!
Any way, Yes i'd go for it then! There is a web site thay will give you free external set up on the drive for $750 plsu s/h.
-
Allen M.
47 gig ultra SCSI
Hi Chuck.
Adaptek is the best, but the throughput on the SCSI drives is aout 2x as fast as on the EIDE. That's one reason why the 300meg machine I am retiring seems about as fast as my 450 DELL EIDE machine. AS soon as the EIDE drives get faster, SCSI comes out with a new twist. I don't keep up with the specs anymore, they change too fast.
And the specs for UNIX. I think the ONLY reason why UNIX hasn't made it big in the consumer industry is because of the different flavors. And SCO, forget it. About five or siz years ago they were expensive as hell, tough to install, buggy, and their support was reputed to be less then admirable.
I did some commercial porting from UNIX to NT on several assignments, and the source code was LOADED with #ifdefs for every UNIX under the sun (sun, not SUN). Add one more for NT. Problem I encountered is that some of the UNIX C++ compilers will let you get away with anything (including K+R) and port it over is a joke, except to the developer trying to make it work.
If UNIX can't get standardized (It's a thing like the Java and browser wars), then one version needs to become significant for the PC, and in the home too. I think Linux, esp. Red Hat has got one big chance right now.
I'd like to see Microsoft get their Visual c++ compiler ported to Linux, because it top dog right now. You do c++ work sometimes, Chuck, have you had a chance to do any STL?
Next year when I finally get a chance to lax a bit, Red Hat may pay my PC a visit, esp. if it is dual bootable with NT.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
...I'm not running UNIX right now. The last UNIX-like OS I used at home was Coherent. I think they vanished.
I am curious to find out how reliable the Seagates are, it's been a long time since I owned one, like since the days when 240Megs were popular.
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 12-19-99).]
Adaptek is the best, but the throughput on the SCSI drives is aout 2x as fast as on the EIDE. That's one reason why the 300meg machine I am retiring seems about as fast as my 450 DELL EIDE machine. AS soon as the EIDE drives get faster, SCSI comes out with a new twist. I don't keep up with the specs anymore, they change too fast.
And the specs for UNIX. I think the ONLY reason why UNIX hasn't made it big in the consumer industry is because of the different flavors. And SCO, forget it. About five or siz years ago they were expensive as hell, tough to install, buggy, and their support was reputed to be less then admirable.
I did some commercial porting from UNIX to NT on several assignments, and the source code was LOADED with #ifdefs for every UNIX under the sun (sun, not SUN). Add one more for NT. Problem I encountered is that some of the UNIX C++ compilers will let you get away with anything (including K+R) and port it over is a joke, except to the developer trying to make it work.
If UNIX can't get standardized (It's a thing like the Java and browser wars), then one version needs to become significant for the PC, and in the home too. I think Linux, esp. Red Hat has got one big chance right now.
I'd like to see Microsoft get their Visual c++ compiler ported to Linux, because it top dog right now. You do c++ work sometimes, Chuck, have you had a chance to do any STL?
Next year when I finally get a chance to lax a bit, Red Hat may pay my PC a visit, esp. if it is dual bootable with NT.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
...I'm not running UNIX right now. The last UNIX-like OS I used at home was Coherent. I think they vanished.
I am curious to find out how reliable the Seagates are, it's been a long time since I owned one, like since the days when 240Megs were popular.
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 12-19-99).]
-
Allen M.
47 gig ultra SCSI
Anthony,
Computers have paid my rent since 1980. My sole option is to ride the crest of every major new wave as long as I can.
Once a new PC honeymoon is over, it becomes just another tool.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
Computers have paid my rent since 1980. My sole option is to ride the crest of every major new wave as long as I can.
Once a new PC honeymoon is over, it becomes just another tool.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
47 gig ultra SCSI
Hi Allen,
a quick search of Dejanews returned nothing negative about it. The few i saw where more then happy with them, most appeared to running them external as they are hugh and power hogs. The search was complete of all articles, and most of the ones i read where at least 3 months old so if anything happened you'd know about it. I'd go for it!
those poor souls paid $$$$$$ you've a chance to grab one cheap.
Yes, there is a IDE out there that does make SCSI shake.
Enter the Ultra ATA/66 drives. With speeds of 66MB/sec. Cost is the same as most standard UDMA drives. Trick is you need either a mobo that supports the 66 or a controller card.
Agreed on the unix thing, if one (RedHat) would get it together and get a contract with Dell Gateway HP Compaq we'd have a stardard unix flavor persay. Then it would be easier to deal with. I've seen BeOS and SuSe out there but limited support or server only type support. SCO is still the same they think there $hit don't stink and you should pay to even think about them.
Hmmm wonder if the gov't break-up of M$ will maybe induce M$ to port the Visual studio over to unix? That would be nice as thats a sweat package!
Sorry Allen, no coding i'm just now messing with Delphi4 (i think) I'm more into the OS/ hardware side of machines. Once i get both SQL 7 tests done i may mess with coding. But for now it's playtime with Delphi. I'm on the look out for a Cisco router or switch cheap though CCNA is a Y2k wish
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ÐÅKkØÑ
M.C.S.E.
M.C.P.+I
a quick search of Dejanews returned nothing negative about it. The few i saw where more then happy with them, most appeared to running them external as they are hugh and power hogs. The search was complete of all articles, and most of the ones i read where at least 3 months old so if anything happened you'd know about it. I'd go for it!
those poor souls paid $$$$$$ you've a chance to grab one cheap.
Yes, there is a IDE out there that does make SCSI shake.
Enter the Ultra ATA/66 drives. With speeds of 66MB/sec. Cost is the same as most standard UDMA drives. Trick is you need either a mobo that supports the 66 or a controller card.
Agreed on the unix thing, if one (RedHat) would get it together and get a contract with Dell Gateway HP Compaq we'd have a stardard unix flavor persay. Then it would be easier to deal with. I've seen BeOS and SuSe out there but limited support or server only type support. SCO is still the same they think there $hit don't stink and you should pay to even think about them.
Hmmm wonder if the gov't break-up of M$ will maybe induce M$ to port the Visual studio over to unix? That would be nice as thats a sweat package!
Sorry Allen, no coding i'm just now messing with Delphi4 (i think) I'm more into the OS/ hardware side of machines. Once i get both SQL 7 tests done i may mess with coding. But for now it's playtime with Delphi. I'm on the look out for a Cisco router or switch cheap though
CCNA is a Y2k wish------------------
ÐÅKkØÑ
M.C.S.E.
M.C.P.+I
-
Allen M.
47 gig ultra SCSI
Hello Chuck,
A few months ago I tried to convince a friend who does professional PC music recording into the newer EIDE drives at about 1/2 the cost of a SCSI drive. even though transfer rates become close and spindle speeds get up there with the new breed of EIDEs, the throughput of the SCSIs is much better. According to him, the difference (even though advertised speeds are close) between the two types is quite noticible when he transcribes music.
I read somewhere that some PC manufacturers are opting to shy away from providing Windows with several types of new PCs.
I guess SCO will never change. Their loss, they'll go belly-up like DR did.
I understand good experienced consulting SQL developers are currently in super demand, esp. in the Boston area. Key words in the banking database industry these days are ODBC and Access. CORBA and Delphi are also buzzwords for the areas you are working in. Pass your tests and stay in the database world.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
A few months ago I tried to convince a friend who does professional PC music recording into the newer EIDE drives at about 1/2 the cost of a SCSI drive. even though transfer rates become close and spindle speeds get up there with the new breed of EIDEs, the throughput of the SCSIs is much better. According to him, the difference (even though advertised speeds are close) between the two types is quite noticible when he transcribes music.
I read somewhere that some PC manufacturers are opting to shy away from providing Windows with several types of new PCs.
I guess SCO will never change. Their loss, they'll go belly-up like DR did.
I understand good experienced consulting SQL developers are currently in super demand, esp. in the Boston area. Key words in the banking database industry these days are ODBC and Access. CORBA and Delphi are also buzzwords for the areas you are working in. Pass your tests and stay in the database world.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
-
Allen M.
47 gig ultra SCSI
Just a followup on the specs for the 47GB Monster. I was sure disapointed when I cpompared it with other SCS drives on the list at the following URL.
www.corpsys.com/store/products.asp?dept=Disk%20%20Drives
By contrast, Maztor's Diamond MAx EIDE claims to have better seek time. Probably for less than HALF the price of the SCSI.
Gotta have FUZZY SCSI.
www.maxtor.com/diamondmaxplus/DMP40_ds.pdf
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Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 12-23-99).]
www.corpsys.com/store/products.asp?dept=Disk%20%20Drives
By contrast, Maztor's Diamond MAx EIDE claims to have better seek time. Probably for less than HALF the price of the SCSI.
Gotta have FUZZY SCSI.
www.maxtor.com/diamondmaxplus/DMP40_ds.pdf
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 12-23-99).]
47 gig ultra SCSI
Allen,
The UDMA 66 drives are fast, but still they load the CPU down. Also you have to get the correct cable or they are like any other EIDE drive its a standard EIDE to DUAL 40 pin connectors. I'm still a strong SCSI beliver and supporter, I'll change camps to Firewire when it get more popular and a little cheaper
Granted any one can get 2 38gig EIDE for the cost of one 47 gig SCSI but you still lose that *something*.
Well it's been a long day and I'm over it for now.
Cheers and take care
Chuck
The UDMA 66 drives are fast, but still they load the CPU down. Also you have to get the correct cable or they are like any other EIDE drive its a standard EIDE to DUAL 40 pin connectors. I'm still a strong SCSI beliver and supporter, I'll change camps to Firewire when it get more popular and a little cheaper
Granted any one can get 2 38gig EIDE for the cost of one 47 gig SCSI but you still lose that *something*.
Well it's been a long day and I'm over it for now.
Cheers and take care
Chuck
-
Allen M.
47 gig ultra SCSI
Hello Chuck,
I like that IBM SCA-LVD 3.5 36GB with a 7.5ms seek time. Sub-10ms speeds are hot. Time for solid-state disks for the general public. They are even faster.
One of the problems of EIDE drives is that I/O is only as fast as the slowest drive. T'aint true with SCSI systems. With SCSI you can also hang as many as 7 devices off the same chain. They should just do away with IDE. Ban it. That would drive SCSI prices down.
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Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com/pulse/index.htm
I like that IBM SCA-LVD 3.5 36GB with a 7.5ms seek time. Sub-10ms speeds are hot. Time for solid-state disks for the general public. They are even faster.
One of the problems of EIDE drives is that I/O is only as fast as the slowest drive. T'aint true with SCSI systems. With SCSI you can also hang as many as 7 devices off the same chain. They should just do away with IDE. Ban it. That would drive SCSI prices down.
------------------
Allen, now at his new website www.ury2k.com/pulse/index.htm
47 gig ultra SCSI
Allen,
Agree on that one!
I think if the big manufacts. would start by putting SCSI in the workstations the prices would too start dropping. I mean charge the same price take the $200 lose in profit but gain the loyal customer because your work station is faster then the other guys. Wouldn't take long!
Just a wish and a thought!
Chuck
Agree on that one!
I think if the big manufacts. would start by putting SCSI in the workstations the prices would too start dropping. I mean charge the same price take the $200 lose in profit but gain the loyal customer because your work station is faster then the other guys. Wouldn't take long!
Just a wish and a thought!
Chuck
47 gig ultra SCSI
Test 1 2 3 4
47 gig ultra SCSI
trying to set the thread on fire
47 gig ultra SCSI
Wooohoooo its burnin'
