Would Anyone Like to See?

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:28 pm

Thank you very much for the honor of offering a forum for computereze usage, Sensei.

My thoughts were to post an announcement on, and use this forum when the next lesson in the series is ready. The voice thing is out because that would necessitate time synchronization, and I can do this only as time is available; sometimes 15 minutes and sometimes a few hours. Up to now, at least I haven't relished the idea of a moderator's responsibilities. I wish to give it some thought as well as further exploration.

In the meantime though, through last night, early this morning, and as a replacement for the annual Turkey Nap, I managed to write about 40 pages of coursework from installing Visual C++ through setting it up, a little debugging skill, and as far as writing and executing the Hello World application. I think this first part may be the roughest part for the new student, and from there much easier. There is a lot of prep learning work that takes place before the student sees any fruits of his labors, and then he can start pumping out little programs on a regular basis. I didn’t dot all the i’s nor cross all the t’s on purpose to leave details open for discussion and work, but left no holes in the path of getting from a to z (through c, of course), and made sure my instructions left no doubt if read and studied. Sometimes I went right down to the computer beginner level while at other times I assumed a specified level of ability.

Tony, you are most welcome to join anytime.

I’ll ask around next week to find out what the going student price is for the Visual C++ Version 6 professional.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Valkenar · Post by **Valkenar** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 3:02 am

In answer to your question about student versions of VC, I checked a while ago at the university bookstore and they were something ridiculous like $500/$600, I don't know how much of a student discount there is.

Course sounds like a great idea, wish I'd had something like that back when I was learning that stuff. Do you intend to teach programming in general? I noticed data structures was a segment of your course and I was wondering if you're planning to teach just lists/binary tree, or whether you're going to get into red/black, avl trees or any of the other, more esoteric kinds of things.

As a sidenote, how's your knowledge of OpenGL/Direct3D? If you ever find yourself bursting at the seams to make a little class about one or both of these things, I'd definitely be interested.

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 11:48 am

Brandeis University, eh? That price is WAY out of line. Whomever purchases a student version at that price is being [justifiably?] ripped. Your quoted price is even more expensive than the street price (bargain-basement) of the even more expensive Enterprise version which also contains a complete configuration management system, something the average person would go “Duh!” about.

That price is definitely NOT correct. The link below should provide an adequate investigation starter set for the inquisitive.

<a href=http://www.flint.umich.edu/departments/ ... g.html>The University of Michigan</a> offers the desired package to the student for 53 bux.

Several years ago, while visiting a friend, I had the opportunity to see for myself the student version of Visual C++ Professional, version 6 for $99.95 as the listed student prince in a local university bookstore.

One more, Valk, then it's off to work:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

I noticed data structures was a segment of your course and I was wondering if you're planning to teach just lists/binary tree, or whether you're going to get into red/black, avl trees or any of the other, more esoteric kinds of things.

I’m going to do much, much better than that with all the above. I’m going to make the sophisticated real easy to work with and understand at the appropriate time. If we do the Uechi-ryu database thing then we will be using those goodies which are not esoteric but heavily used throughout industry, but except maybe esoteric in Academia.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
es·o·ter·ic ( s -t r k)adj. 1. a. Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult. See Synonyms at mysterious. b. Of or relating to that which is known by a restricted number of people. 2. a. Confined to a small group: esoteric interests. b. Not publicly disclosed; confidential. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

As a sidenote, how's your knowledge of OpenGL/Direct3D?

Never touch the stuff. Most, if not all my professional software work these days is concerned with mathematical algorithmic development.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Tony-San · Post by **Tony-San** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 12:49 pm

$500???

the hell with that!

I'll post a request in alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 6:19 pm

ALlen-sama,

The only thing I was worried about was you NOT doing the project. I didn't want to think that I had stiffled the idea. I was joking about the wallet issue. Honest...

Glad to see you are forging ahead. I'll try to keep up as well, but my math dyslexia may get in the way a bit...

Great idea.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 9:14 pm

Hey Valk! You are terrorizing my future students, especially Tony, with artificial bloated prices and scare-words. Cut that stuff out.

Lee! Why I thought you were an expert C++ coder and was going to try to give me a tough time with questions so I already prepared my defense against you. Don’t let me down now, hear?
<hr>
<center>It just keeps getting better</center>

I did some research this am and my pickup truck, all by itself, jumped out of control, veered to the right off the road and did a 3-point landing at the CompUSA parking lot on the way home. Can you imagine that? Here’s what I found, and such good deals too:

Stay away from the “Learning” version, different from the “Student” version.

CompUSA sells Visual C++, version 6, standard edition for $119. Good so far. On the box is written $50 rebate and $70 for Canada. Also on the box is a 30-day money-back guarantee, Canada and US. Wow! Such a deal. And it looks like it has all the right stuff too.

Additional writing on the back of the box says it’s easy on the PC: Requires a 486, Windows 95 or later, 24 meg ram, Max Installation space requirements on the hard drive is 305 megs and another 45 megs required for the supplied MSDN CDs. You also need a CD-ROM drive, a VGA monitor, and a mouse.

Well, with the guaranteed return I figured I’d get it and look inside the box to evaluate. I’m shaking with anticipation as I start to open the box. Wow again! It even comes with service pack 5 plus a bonified, real book, entitled Introduction to Visual C++ 6.0. Holey Smoley! Thumbing through the book gives me the impression that it is perfect for learning the basics of Windows programming and some MFC after we master C and C++.

As soon as everyone gets this one, and the required book, we are good to go. I’m still shooting at about 1 Dec or a little after if all required pieces haven’t yet been procured.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 11:07 pm

Allen-sama,

What I know about C and C++ can be printed on the head of a pin in Pica type.

Hard time? Not me?

Hadn't you noticved how much we've been AGREEING with each other lately?! Why ruin a streak?

Have a great weekend,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
Lee! Why I thought you were an expert C++ coder and was going to try to give me a tough time with questions so I already prepared my defense against you. Don’t let me down now, hear?
<hr>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Sat Nov 24, 2001 11:10 am

I just finished writing the second section The first program (What else but “Hello World”). and have to put it away in order to get ready for work. I found my The C Programming Language book yesterday, which I often call the c-manual or the K&R book and looked at its description of main() after I wrote mine, and was pleased to see that I did not gurgitate what was already written by others, rather explained it properly and in my own words to make the lesson easier to understand as well as to to prevent plagiarism. Anytime I use anything directly out of the book, I will paraphrase it and point you to the correct page. There will be times that the book will write a description exactly the way I would have, or I want you to read it without my retyping (such as a table). Then I will save myself time by providing a reference to the information for you. I will not cover the manual page by page nor chapter by chapter. I do not even plan on covering the book, rather only use it as a reference when required.

I'm writing to a completely different audience then who Kernighan and Ritchie wrote for. I'm attempting to use a little "street language" in my descriptions to make the entry into computer programming using c easier for "youse guys." I also start and follow through to completion my write-ups without the use of any reference material in order to keep my thoughts unpolluted as well as sharply focused on my audience.

I'll do the write-up on either basic scalar types as a prelude to functions, or the first lesson on functions, maybe next, and then start presenting them one-at-the-time for easy digestion when classes begin. Either one will expand upon your first “Hello World” program.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Arnie Elkins · Post by **Arnie Elkins** » Sun Nov 25, 2001 2:19 am

Allen sensei, what version of the K&R book are you using? I have seen two, the original, and one published either in 1988 or 1989, depending on who you ask, that is listed as the 2nd edition. I just want to make sure I am getting the same one you have. I have seen people on eBay selling the original, but I would think you have the 2nd edition. Thanks, I am looking forward to the class.

Arnie

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:39 am

</TD>
<TD VALIGN=TOP>The ANSI second edition is the one to get. The original K&R method of writing C code is archaic and no longer used.

I still have the receipt in mine, specially shipped within the first year of printing, dated 10/29/90. A special delivery to Eghead Software for me for 24.00 net at a time when C was still practiced mainly by cloistered UNIXites. I must have felt that book was important way back then because it is the only one out of several hundred programming books that I left the receipt in [else I thought it was so cryptic and bad I was going to return it].

In God vs. K&R, Alan Morgan writes this:

Old Testament - K&R Classic
New Testament - K&R ANSI

</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Valkenar · Post by **Valkenar** » Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
Hey Valk! You are terrorizing my future students, especially Tony, with artificial bloated prices and scare-words. Cut that stuff out.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, sorry that wasn't my intent at all. I just know that last time I checked, that's how much it was. I was probably looking at all of Developer Studio or soemthing, if I'm off by that much. But I certainly remember seeing a price like that when I went to look at it. There's always DJGPP.

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Mon Nov 26, 2001 11:59 pm

No problemo, Valk.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Jay Sal · Post by **Jay Sal** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:01 am

Hello All:

I saw that Al was thinking of teaching a programing course. I graduated college a few years ago, with a degree in Computer Science / Information Technology. Al helped me a great deal with my C & C++ courses.

I can tell you all first hand. Al is not only a great Uechi teacher. He is also a great program code teacher... With out Al's help, I never would of done as well as I did in the course. Thank's again Al..

Your Friend: Jay Sal..

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 8:13 am

Thanks Jay. I remember the months of Saturday mornings in my living room helping direct you toward your goals in C/C++. It was a lot of hard work on your part. I've been through it and I don't envy anyone who takes C/C++ as college courses; definitely not a language for the feint-at-heart as pointers can be real nasty at times.

My reward came when you brought me your grades with a smile that stretched from ear to ear.

Your good friend, Jay,

Allen

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Traveler in the Arts · Tue Dec 04, 2001 3:20 pm

Hello Allen,

I have just joined the MA Forum, am interested in your course, and wonder if it is still possible to join?

If so, is the following what I need to get up to speed:

Required compiler: Ms visual C++ version 6.

Required Book(s): Kernighan and Ritchie’s C Programming book which can be most likely found on line. Either of their
websites, or Geek Girl’s website would be great places to look for that book.

Thanks!