Daughter's defense

miked · Post by **miked** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:11 am

My wife and I have taken in three foster teens (one Latina, one black girl and a 15 yo white male)

They are all from tough neighborhoods but, interestingly, they never learned how to fight.

I have spent some time training all of them on how to hit and avoid being hit.

The Latina (Ileana) is 17, 5'3 and weighs about 90 lbs. with a lithe dancer's body and shape.

Two days ago she was traveling on a bus back to our home when three black female teens started to give her a hard time and challenge her.

One of these black girls was 5'6 ' to 5' 7" and outweighed my foster daughter by well over 50 lbs. This girl was standing over my daughter while she was seated on the bus and her two friends were blocking Ileana from moving out of the aisle to escape. They started talking "trash" to Ileana trying to prompt a response. Ileana finally got tired of the "crap" and threw her drink down on the floor in front of these three girls.

The large black girl then started to throw punches at my daughter. Ileana was still seated, so she turned her shoulders towards the black girls so that she was taking the hits on her shoulder and not body and face. She then stood up and started punching the big girl in her face, nose and chin, using the punches I taught her and actually drawing blood.

The bus driver stopped the bus and kicked all four girls off the bus. Once off the bus, the girls started to shove and attempt to hit Ileana. She was blocking and hitting back (3 against one - real fair huh?).

A few security guards came, broke up the fight and told all of them to go their separate ways The large black girl was complaining to the guards about her facial and bodily injuries that Ileana had inflicted. Other than some sore shoulders, Ileana didn’t have a scratch on her. She turned her back and started to walk away (I had told her many times never to turn her back but she just thought the fight was over.)

The large black girl, who started the fight, followed my daughter and hit her in the back with her two friends looking on and jeering at Ileana. Ileana turned around and using crosses and snap punches pummeled her aggressor in the nose, chin, jaw and then knocked her out. The other two black girls were stunned to see their friend go down from such a smaller girl and then started to literally drag their friend away. Turning back one of the girls said something like “Just be glad I didn’t step in”. Iliana stood her ground, looked “big mouth” in the eye (Uechi glare) and said “Try it”. “Big mouth” just kept dragging away her unconscious friend.

Now I must say that Ileana is actually a sweet , shy girl with absolutely no meanness in her who is always trying to please and help others. I actually never expected her to come out on top in this type of confrontation!

My wife was quite upset with Ileana over the incident and I had mixed feelings. I wasn't sure if she could have talked her way out of the matter but on the other hand I was glad that she wasn't the one who ended up on the ground.

I told her that next time she must be more careful as they could have just as easily pulled a knife or a gun. I also told her that she always has a right to defend herself and I was proud of the way she did so.

So here is the question, if this was your daughter how would you respond?

Mike D.
Los Angeles

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:54 am

Affirm the positives but make the risks crystal clear .

maybe while the topics up get her to read some appropriate books dealing with violence and the mentality , debecker ?

Also realise that winning and loosing aside there still be feelings and angst , let her talk and try not to jump in , give her a chance to debrief and not feel judged .

miked · Post by **miked** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:45 am

Stryke,

Good points.

I have not yet given Ileana a chance to explain her feelings before, during and after the fight.

I'll go ahead and take that step to see what lessons may be learned by both of us.

Mike

Griffin · Post by **Griffin** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:06 pm

U may want to make sure that Ileana is on "HIGH ALERT" for a while as they may try to seek retribution.

Rick Wilson · Post by **Rick Wilson** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:07 pm

You have had some good responses.

Sometimes you can talk and sometimes you have no choice but to fight and if you have to fight do it well.

Pat her on the back for me. Well done.

At the same time the warnings given here (possible knife) are very real.

Being on watch for the next while is a good idea.

I would also take issue with the bus drivers response to putting your daughter off the bus with the three girls taunting and hitting her.

If they give you any of the zero tolerance stuff ask why the bus drive allowed the attack to continue forcing your daughter to respond.

Ask how they are going to handle his negligence in allowing the attack to occur.

Make it very clear their employee failed to protect a student in their charge and placed her at greater risk for harm.

Make their liability in this situation very clear.

You don't have to get anything from them except that your duaghter is not to be tossed off the bus next time with people intending to harm her.

She walked away -- it was a good day.

miked · Post by **miked** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:04 am

You know Rick, I'm glad you brought up the point about the bus driver's reaction to the situation.

I was surprised when my daughetr told me that he didn't call for assistance and just threw all of the girls off the bus.

I don't know if this is standard policy in Los Angeles or elsewher.

I will do some research to and contact the LA Metro services to ask the questions you posed.

Mike

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:44 am

If your daughter had not fought back in the manner that she did, she would not have earned their 'respect' and subsequent assaults will have occurred.

So it a choice between more assaults or retribution for this one.

She now has to think tactical and be in condition orange 24/7_ and be ready with a 'continuum' _

1] Why didn't she notify the police? This is a good idea because if something happens in the future, there will be a record of prior attack, and this is very desirable.

2] The bus driver was negligent and the school is subject to civil action. Best to get a lawyer to write a letter to the school board and place them on notice of their potential liability. This will change the driver's attitude.

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:30 pm

There is some very wise information that's been offered here. Also it would be good to inform the school of the incident so they can be apprised of the situation in case these girls are seen on the campus. And even more importantly if they are classmates of your foster daughter's.

You might also suggest she wait for a different bus if this is an LA metro bus. The same girls may ride it at the same time every day.

best of luck,
Dana

miked · Post by **miked** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:17 am

Ileana wasn't on a schoool bus, she was on a Metro bus when she was attacked and she wasn't coming back from school but from a relative's home.

I need to speak to someone at LA Metro to find out their policy re: these types of situations.

Van, we didn't think to report the incident to the police.

I will go ahead and take that step.

Mike

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:46 am

Mike,

LA Metro_ would be also subject to liability. As Dana suggests, you should place them on notice in writing, and have a lawyer follow up with his letter.

In fact the attorney may well tell you that what happened to your daughter is actionable now and file a claim for damages.

This may well change their policies for the future.

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:55 am

How about learning how not to become a target? Just the way you look at some of these types can cause this kind of attack... Lots of info out there about how to aviod being targeted.

Dana Sheets wrote:
You might also suggest she wait for a different bus if this is an LA metro bus. The same girls may ride it at the same time every day.

How well do these 'girls' know your daughter? They may have an idea where she goes to school; where she lives; where she hangs out, etc. These types are not at all above planning a pay back... and God forbid if they get their chance they will almost certainly not be playing the same game next time...

Perhaps some non lethal weapons are in order, pepper spray, short stick, or other key chain type weapons and some training to go with them, sounds like a hell of a neighborhood.

miked · Post by **miked** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:24 am

Thanks to everybody for their responses.

Jim, the girls that attacked my daughter weren't known to her. They, apparently, were just looking to cause trouble and they decided to take on Ileana due to her size and ethnicity. Ileana referred to them as "gangsta girls".

She is avoiding the same bus or route and travels at a different time of day (There are multiple routes, buses and time frames to get back to our home).

The phrase "gangsta girls" has me worried as I don't know how this might escalate if they run into her again.

I haven't trained her against knife attacks and I am reluctant to arm her with a knife as she doesn't have the training to properly use it.

How about mace or pepper spray? Would that suffice in this type of situation?

Mike D.
Los Angeles

miked · Post by **miked** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:28 am

FYI, to all of the respondents, I have once again stressed to my daughter that she should never turn her back on opponents. She made that mistake and this time she was able to handle the situation but I know that this type of mistake could have made the situation far worse for her.

Mike

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:33 am

Good stuff Mike , hope your all doing well