Beauty is thy name
Moderator: Available
-
Guest
Yes, women can be admired for their strengths... for example, I am a "single-minded" man and like to be guided by a woman... like the way a lighthouse will guide a ship at sea... Or a the relationship of a Queen and a Soldier (not a king). I think that these relationships best describe the strengths of women that I admire, and need. I do not want to be king, I want to serve as a soldier would... that gives me purpose and ability to apply my own strengths towards worthy goals established by "her". In a world that seems to be "male" dominated, placing the woman on a pedestal seems to bring a "balance" of power in a relationship. Of course, i'm going on #3 here so i'm not sure I believe my own stuff.Dana Sheets wrote:Mountains and mole hills.
This is a non-issue for so many and still a big issue for some.
A basic question:
Can beauty in a woman (not a girl) be admired without a sexual connotation or does beauty=sex?
Anyway, young chicks do not have these strengths... so they are good for only one thing... YEAH BABY!
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Wow...
I do not mind the frank comments, and I am perfectly comfortable with my views and my "urges."
Perhaps a little bit of perspective is in order...
I met my wife in the gym in 1983. Dana met her several times, and we have "broken bread" together. My wife was one of the very first female bodybuilders that this country has seen.
Back then I was trying to get women in my karate class to train with weights. Initially I couldn't back then. It's difficult for those born more recently to understand but... Most women back then were VERY concerned about "their looks" and didn't want to "look like Arnold."
Men look at women. But women look at...other women. Go take a look at a Cosmo or Woman's Day cover some time. Ever see a picture of a guy? It doesn't happen. Women admire other women, only in a different way.
I might have pictures of my wife around the house. But my wife has...pictures of herself back when she was in top shape. She has posing pictures of herself from newspaper articles. Back when she started, she was a trendsetter.
Back when she started... I remember a certain time I went to meet my wife's parents. My wife's father started railing into her, telling her that he was embarassed to tell any of his coworkers that his daughter competed in bodybuilding. He saw it as some kind of freak show - a cross between T&A and gender dysphoria. When I came to her defense (I took many pictures of her during her competition) I almost caused her father to have a coronary on the spot.
Some of you just don't get it.
Read my first line.
), does that comment say something about me, or does this instead say something about the person making the statement? In other words... I have my own response to these photos. What is YOUR response? And why?
Is this sexual?
When I see that picture, I see...
* The muscular striations and the remarkable muscular symmetry. This in a... a girl for Christ's sake!
* The tremendous visual focus
* A principle called sequential summation of movement (note how her navel has rotated ahead of her shoulders and arms). That's something that only a handful of Uechika have figured out - Dana being one of them.
Now, what do YOU see in this picture?
You see what you see. And maybe you presume what I see. Or maybe...
Check out the box that the guy is standing on. Do you know who that man is? It's the world famous Gary Player. He's a golfing legend. And Michelle - a child - makes him look like a midget in comparison.
Old school meets new school. Yin and yang. Or... is it yang and yin?? It's a remarkable photograph.
Maybe you're like my wife's dad. Maybe you think the world sees T&A. All I can say is your perceptions are your own.
By the way, I have posted pictures of "David" many times before. And the reason? Demonstrating nature's beauty. Ask Van; I posted it on his forum in a thread where the guys were getting a bit frisky. What do YOU see when you look at David? If I said that David personifies male physical beauty, is that a sexual reference? Does it mean I'm a little AC/DC?
It's in the eye of the beholder.
What one word is conveyed by this picture? (Hint - it has something to do with the crane). Could YOU spontaneously strike that pose while executing a little bit of "body English?" (And are you familiar with the expression?)
Please do not think I am offended by what people think of me in starting this thread. If it offends you, Dana, please remove it. If you (others) have an opinion of me, you are entitled. I'm plenty secure in whom I am and what I think.
And after all, just look at the conversation that this stimulated... IMO, it shows we've come a long way, but we have a hell of a lot farther to go. But that is, after all, just my perception.
- Bill
I do not mind the frank comments, and I am perfectly comfortable with my views and my "urges."
Perhaps a little bit of perspective is in order...
I met my wife in the gym in 1983. Dana met her several times, and we have "broken bread" together. My wife was one of the very first female bodybuilders that this country has seen.
Back then I was trying to get women in my karate class to train with weights. Initially I couldn't back then. It's difficult for those born more recently to understand but... Most women back then were VERY concerned about "their looks" and didn't want to "look like Arnold."
Men look at women. But women look at...other women. Go take a look at a Cosmo or Woman's Day cover some time. Ever see a picture of a guy? It doesn't happen. Women admire other women, only in a different way.
I might have pictures of my wife around the house. But my wife has...pictures of herself back when she was in top shape. She has posing pictures of herself from newspaper articles. Back when she started, she was a trendsetter.
Back when she started... I remember a certain time I went to meet my wife's parents. My wife's father started railing into her, telling her that he was embarassed to tell any of his coworkers that his daughter competed in bodybuilding. He saw it as some kind of freak show - a cross between T&A and gender dysphoria. When I came to her defense (I took many pictures of her during her competition) I almost caused her father to have a coronary on the spot.
Some of you just don't get it.
Read my first line.
So when I am accused of being a "pervert" (no worries...I have thick skinBill wrote: To me, one of the most beautiful creations of nature is both the static physique and the physical movement of a natural, world class athlete. Forget the peroxide and the silicone and the nose jobs and the props. What nature selects for in the Darwinian world of competition is - in my view - beauty personified. When nature does her thing, I can't help but gawk like an admiring kid.
), does that comment say something about me, or does this instead say something about the person making the statement? In other words... I have my own response to these photos. What is YOUR response? And why?Is this sexual?
When I see that picture, I see...
* The muscular striations and the remarkable muscular symmetry. This in a... a girl for Christ's sake!
* The tremendous visual focus
* A principle called sequential summation of movement (note how her navel has rotated ahead of her shoulders and arms). That's something that only a handful of Uechika have figured out - Dana being one of them.
Now, what do YOU see in this picture?
You see what you see. And maybe you presume what I see. Or maybe...
Check out the box that the guy is standing on. Do you know who that man is? It's the world famous Gary Player. He's a golfing legend. And Michelle - a child - makes him look like a midget in comparison.
Old school meets new school. Yin and yang. Or... is it yang and yin?? It's a remarkable photograph.
Maybe you're like my wife's dad. Maybe you think the world sees T&A. All I can say is your perceptions are your own.
By the way, I have posted pictures of "David" many times before. And the reason? Demonstrating nature's beauty. Ask Van; I posted it on his forum in a thread where the guys were getting a bit frisky. What do YOU see when you look at David? If I said that David personifies male physical beauty, is that a sexual reference? Does it mean I'm a little AC/DC?
It's in the eye of the beholder.
What one word is conveyed by this picture? (Hint - it has something to do with the crane). Could YOU spontaneously strike that pose while executing a little bit of "body English?" (And are you familiar with the expression?)
In a thread on Tough Issues, Mike and I were talking about the statues on Momument Avenue in Richmond. This was one of my posts (in response to Mike's suggestion that an Arthur Ashe monument on Monument Avenue should have been with him on a horse).Dana wrote: And if you watch Bill's forum he equally posts pics of his favorite baseball heroes executing their best technique. But what he doesn't do is post pictures of them in a Tux or a swimsuit....so that's where things get fuzzy.
Wow... How timely of me to have posted this.Yea, a horse. That's the ticket!
As you recall, the Maury and Jefferson Davis statues are more reflective and less bellicose.
I just think the sculptor blew it when trying to capture the essense of Arthur Ashe.
He didn't even get the racket in the right hand. (And I don't buy the message or the artistic license.)
- Bill
Please do not think I am offended by what people think of me in starting this thread. If it offends you, Dana, please remove it. If you (others) have an opinion of me, you are entitled. I'm plenty secure in whom I am and what I think.
And after all, just look at the conversation that this stimulated... IMO, it shows we've come a long way, but we have a hell of a lot farther to go. But that is, after all, just my perception.
- Bill
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Nope. I'm not offended.
I used you, Bill, as an example for this discussion because I knew you wouldn't be offended.
I get frustrated because I think anyone should be able to admire people for their positive attributes. The whole youth/adult thing is a HUGE hang-up in this culture and I don't have a good answer to it.
I was pretty sure I knew where Bill was coming from. Obviously Liz didn't. Did I know where Bill was coming from because I know Bill personally? If Liz knew Bill better would she be less likely to think that Bill was posting something inappropriately?
There are things you can say with folks you know and know they won't be taken the wrong way.
There are things that posted on the internet without body language and among strangers that do get taken the wrong way.
And as yet nobody has answered my questions about whether or not we should be doing something to help youth and adults address the issue other than the not-so-useful suggestion to "lighten up."
Which is another reason I get frustrated by this medium. In it I come off as a stick in the mud. Which, believe it or not, I'm not.
What I do want is for there to be a clear understanding between what Bill implied in his post and what the readers infer from his post. Obviously between Bill and Liz that line of communication broke down.
How can we do that better in the future without having to post 1,000 caveats to every post?
Maybe the answer is to just lighten up. I dunno the answer **shrug** and I know it is still an issue.
----------------
Tony - your comment implying that young women are only good for one thing pisses me off and is not welcome, even as a joke. it may be funny to guys, it is not funny to me. So take that elsewhere.
I used you, Bill, as an example for this discussion because I knew you wouldn't be offended.
I get frustrated because I think anyone should be able to admire people for their positive attributes. The whole youth/adult thing is a HUGE hang-up in this culture and I don't have a good answer to it.
I was pretty sure I knew where Bill was coming from. Obviously Liz didn't. Did I know where Bill was coming from because I know Bill personally? If Liz knew Bill better would she be less likely to think that Bill was posting something inappropriately?
There are things you can say with folks you know and know they won't be taken the wrong way.
There are things that posted on the internet without body language and among strangers that do get taken the wrong way.
And as yet nobody has answered my questions about whether or not we should be doing something to help youth and adults address the issue other than the not-so-useful suggestion to "lighten up."
Which is another reason I get frustrated by this medium. In it I come off as a stick in the mud. Which, believe it or not, I'm not.
What I do want is for there to be a clear understanding between what Bill implied in his post and what the readers infer from his post. Obviously between Bill and Liz that line of communication broke down.
How can we do that better in the future without having to post 1,000 caveats to every post?
Maybe the answer is to just lighten up. I dunno the answer **shrug** and I know it is still an issue.
----------------
Tony - your comment implying that young women are only good for one thing pisses me off and is not welcome, even as a joke. it may be funny to guys, it is not funny to me. So take that elsewhere.
-
Guest
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I am not offended by Liz's comment in the least, Dana. After all, I married a woman who broke through one of the last bastions of "maleness", and was accused of being a strip tease artist in the process. I have nothing against women who do topless dancing, and my wife is anything but sexual when she is ripped and posing for a contest. And yes, I find her remarkably beautiful.Dana wrote: What I do want is for there to be a clear understanding between what Bill implied in his post and what the readers infer from his post. Obviously between Bill and Liz that line of communication broke down.
And I find little girls remarkably beautiful, and ask their parents if I can hug them. After all, I grew up with six sisters (one a twin) and I only have two boys. It's like admiring a beautiful puppy.
And seeing Michelle Wie reminds me of when I went around with my 6-month-old Great Dane puppy. He only weighed 125 pounds at the time. If you saw a still photograph of him, you'd swear he was a fully grown dog. And then when he'd get excited and pee from one end of the living room to the next...
Big puppies can make big messes.How old does she look in this photo? And why??
The word "compartmentalization" comes to mind. Vicki accuses me of an extraordinary ability here. Sometimes she sees that as an asset, and sometimes she sees it as a typical male flaw.
Back to sports and martial arts...
How do women view themselves? What is the Plantonic ideal of themselves in their head? When they check out other women, what do they see? What do they think other women see? Other men?
It's a funny world...
- Bill
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Let's take another look at these two photographs. What do you see?
Yes, of course I see a beautiful woman-child in the same way sports analysts used to call a teenage Mike Tyson a man-child.
But look beyond the XX chromasomes, and the perfect symmetry. What else do you see?
It's a classic. It also spends a good deal of material on the topic of perception. Two people can see the same thing, and see something different in it. No view is "correct" or "invalid." It's just what you see.
Do you see this in these photos?
That's a torsion spring. An engineer like me knows that a torsion spring can store and release rotational energy.
Maybe instead you see this...
Whatever floats your boat!
Now, here's the real question. Do you see that movement in your Sanchin? And if not, why not?
Yes, of course I see a beautiful woman-child in the same way sports analysts used to call a teenage Mike Tyson a man-child.
But look beyond the XX chromasomes, and the perfect symmetry. What else do you see?
Have you ever read this book?Arthur Mendelson: How many fingers do you see?
Hunter Patch Adams: Four.
Arthur Mendelson: No no! Look beyond the fingers! Now tell me how many you see.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arthur Mendelson: You're focusing on the problem. If you focus on the problem, you can't see the solution. Never focus on the problem!
It's a classic. It also spends a good deal of material on the topic of perception. Two people can see the same thing, and see something different in it. No view is "correct" or "invalid." It's just what you see.
Do you see this in these photos?
That's a torsion spring. An engineer like me knows that a torsion spring can store and release rotational energy.
Maybe instead you see this...
Whatever floats your boat!
Now, here's the real question. Do you see that movement in your Sanchin? And if not, why not?
- BillArthur Mendelson: See what no one else sees. See what everyone chooses not to see... out of fear, conformity or laziness. See the whole world anew each day!
-
Stryke
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
-
Guest
BEST KARATE
Hey mate, isn't that a mcdojo franchise 
http://www.personalbestkarate.com/franchise/
I would have sold you a franchise for less than ten grand
Hey looks like no previous experience required, just lots of money.
http://www.personalbestkarate.com/franchise/
I would have sold you a franchise for less than ten grand
Hey looks like no previous experience required, just lots of money.
-
Stryke
-
Guest
-
Guest
