da Brain - High to Low

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Dana Sheets
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da Brain - High to Low

Post by Dana Sheets »

So I've been making this show on teen brains and got a chance to interview another leading brain scienist. And here's another groovy tidbit about how your brain learns stuff.

When you first learn new stuff it is actually in the more superficial (think outer) layers of your brain. If you don't use it, it goes away. If you do or recall whatever it is more and more often and you are very interested in/motivated by what you are recalling, your memory actually moves deeper (think inner/lower) into the brain. So different parts of your brain light up for a memory you use often and care about AND those parts change over time. Once your brain decides something is really really important - that's when you go from gray matter to white matter in the brain.

Gray matter is brain cells and nerual connections - neurons, axons, dendrites, and synapses. On the following picture gray matter is shown as yellow, blue, and pink.
Image

White matter is the fatty tissue (myelin) that wraps itself around neural connections that you use often. On the following picture you see the sheathing action made larger at the top of the image.
Image

The myelin sheath makes a connection work faster than one without.

What does this mean for training? It means that the brain is paying attention to you when you do something more that you have a very strong interest in. (That last bit is important - if you're not interested or motivated in what you're doing - no sheath, no white matter,) So not only will important connections get white matter around them an important neuron cell could have 10,000 connections to other cells on its surface. And synpases can happen anywhere in the neural web.
Image

So when you train often (let's say kicking) your multiple experiences are actually changing the location of your kicking memories to a place deeper in the brain, sheathing those connections in accelerating white matter, and increasing the number of connections between the brain cells related to kicking.

Do not only do you need to do your training often - you need to care about your training for your brain to think it important. So the better an attitude you have towards your training the better your brain optimizes your brain to perform the tasks you are doing.

This is a kind of a "well duh" thing. Obviously people are better at the things they like to do. But now there is scientific evidence as to why on a physiological level it is so powerful.
Did you show compassion today?
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

Well i partly understand that.it means in Karate context that you are really learning to be instinctive when you fight so if you do a lot of kicks you will programme yourself to be able to respond with kicks.like a Jazz musician can pull out riffs.....so your kicking will become a natural process which brings up two points to me the first is what if you train slow like in Tai-Chi, will you be developing the same kind of thing............or will it just make you respond lsowly :D
the second is in regards to learning school stuff. I have read books by dominic O'brien who is a memory champion and I'm sure that if folks are motivated to use his systems that they can learn a great deal.just by using his systems :wink:
2Green
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Post by 2Green »

I think my brain is like a giant Pachinko machine where the little balls, like thoughts, just kind of bounce around randomly until suddenly a few fall into place...
Then a light bulb goes on over my head, and I wake up bolt upright and realize I left the trash on the deck, and it's pickup day.

Seriously...I picked up on this:"

"...you are really learning to be instinctive..." Jorvik

Can instinctive behaviour be learned, or is learned behaviour something different from instinctive behaviour?
I thought instinctive behaviour was, by definition, that which is beyond the reach of cognitive learning.
-?-

NM

[/img]
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
2Green
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Location: on the path.

Post by 2Green »

I think my brain is like a giant Pachinko machine where the little balls, like thoughts, just kind of bounce around randomly until suddenly a few fall into place...
Then a light bulb goes on over my head, and I wake up bolt upright and realize I left the trash on the deck, and it's pickup day.

Seriously...I picked up on this:

"...you are really learning to be instinctive..." Jorvik

Can instinctive behaviour be learned, or is learned behaviour something different from instinctive behaviour?
I thought instinctive behaviour was, by definition, that which is beyond the reach of cognitive learning.
-?-

NM

[/img]
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
Guest

Post by Guest »

I used to think there was this mystical power that exploded from the core of the universe and made every living thing function... and then I took biology in college and found out it was all just a bunch of chemical reactions... of course, the complexity of it was mind boggling, but they are just chemical reactions none-the-less...

no such thing as Chi, just a bunch of ATP molecules... :D
fivedragons
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Post by fivedragons »

I think there are a whole lot of people out there who don't even know that instinctual behaviour exists. For those people, they need to learn that they actually have instincts. As opposed to learned limitations, negative reinforcement. There are people walking around who don't even realize that they have the innate ability to defend themself against another person. Or that it is okay to do so. There are a lot of people who are unknowingly fighting a war of attrition with thier own ATP molecules. :lol:
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

think there are a whole lot of people out there who don't even know that instinctual behaviour exists. For those people, they need to learn that they actually have instincts. As opposed to learned limitations, negative reinforcement. There are people walking around who don't even realize that they have the innate ability to defend themself against another person. Or that it is okay to do so. There are a lot of people who are unknowingly fighting a war of attrition with thier own ATP molecules.
BEST POST EVER !!! 8)

now heres amushin expert :lol:
2Green
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Post by 2Green »

"in·stinct (ĭn'stĭngkt') pronunciation
n.

1. An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli: the spawning instinct in salmon; altruistic instincts in social animals.
2. A powerful motivation or impulse.
3. An innate capability or aptitude: an instinct for tact and diplomacy."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that the above definition uses the terms"inborn" and "innate" and "characteristic of a species".

It does not mention any "learned" or "trained" behaviour or "reflexes".
This is what I meant in my reply to Jorvik -- my understanding is that "instincts" or "instinctual behaviour" are not the result of any cognitive process whether learned or trained, but rather they are actions taken on a level that bypasses all these processes, and therefore are not accessable for conditioned-response training such as MA.

This does not in my opinion include "fight or flight" since these responses are based upon cognition and response.
I don't automatically or "instinctively" run away from a fly, or a drunken patron.
However, my "instinct" (which I did not deliberately invoke) might warn me of a danger from the drunken patron, but just a minor annoyance from the fly.
Likewise, my instinct might "tell" me that the drunken patron is no threat at all. This has happened to me many times.

I don't know what exactly instinct is.
But my understanding of it is that it is not something you can train or control -- the definitions given above seem to support this with words like "inborn" and "innate" , etc.

NM
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
fivedragons
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Post by fivedragons »

2Green,

I don't know if this is what you're getting at, but I could teach anyone some simple and effortless methods to take any movement and download it directly to your central nervous system/subconscious. To the point where some messed up karate pose happens in response to stimulus before you see it happening or are aware of it. Unfortunately it involves suspension of critical rational thought and won't work unless someone really wants it enough and thinks that the teacher is some kind of deity :lol:

Most people are immune to this kind of training because I think there is an instinctive fear of letting go of the anchors that constitute "reality". The void can be more terrifying then anything the rational mind can encompass. Depending on life experiences and how much time has been spent repressing negative imprints, it can be like opening the gates of hell, and can lead to psychosis.

How many people really want to find out what is actually under the surface of the ocean while swimming at midnight? You're not really learning anything new but rather seeing what has always been there.

Anyway it involves working with chi :lol: Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. :lol:
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Oldfist
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Re: da Brain - High to Low

Post by Oldfist »

Dana Sheets wrote:So I've been making this show on teen brains and got a chance to interview another leading brain scienist. And here's another groovy tidbit about how your brain learns stuff.
Hi Dana, this is very interesting stuff! :D Do you have a link to her/his website or to the original research article?

Thanks,
John

I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that
I may learn how to do it. Pablo Picasso
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Dana Sheets
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Post by Dana Sheets »

Did you show compassion today?
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Dana

I really enjoyed this.

The thing is... I can't figure out why this is new. I've talked about it in class a lot with my students. Is it perhaps because someone finally is getting better anatomical evidence for an evolving theory?

Biomedical engineers have "stolen" the principle of this architecture, and use it in predictive modeling (a.k.a. neural nets). It's still a bit archaic by the standards of a self-regulating brain, but you can see where one day we'll really go places with it.

Meanwhile... I am very, very fascinated by what it takes to "internalize" martial learning. I've viewed it a lot like trying to learn a language so you think in it. I've wondered how you have language geniuses such as Marty Dow (a fellow Uechika) who can learn languages at a later date without an accent. I know this to be true; I watched my Beijing-born roomate's jaw drop when Marty spoke to him. Some of the tricks they use with language to improve the learning curve is to use music and games. Somehow I believe this reproduces the "plastic brain" that we lose with adolescence. It helps us use pieces and parts of the brain that we otherwise leave idle. Another thing worth noting is the relationship between learning and catecholamine (adrenaline) levels.

Can we develop some of these tools for martial arts training? Can you take a kid with a bad attitude and help him learn? Ahh... These are the things that a rabid teacher dreams of. 8)

- Bill
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