Fighting Posture

[Dana Sheets]

So when you fight - are your hands up near your head or way out in front or are they in Sanchin?

I've seen these three distinct approaches over the years and seen folks make them all work - but I'm curious what folks think "works better" for most people.

I've found that I simply can stay in a traditional Sanchin arm position and fight. My head is too open and everyone else's arms are too too long. So at this point in my life my hands are up so that my fists (be they open or closed) are just below eye level and I (try to) keep my chin tucked back without letting my head drop forward and down.

What do you do?

[MikeK]

Considering I spend more time getting my backside handed to me take this with a grain of salt.

When in close hands are up as a guard and to allow me to grab or hit the head or neck. If there is some distance it depends on what image that I want to present to my opponent.

[Stryke]

It`s totally position and range specific , and transitionary , anytime you assume a fixed posture your going to get nailed by someone who knows what there doing IMHO .

If your playing striking then higher and chin tucked shoulder/range , Sanchin good for Grappling wrestling type stance inviting the centreline for the collapse on the centreline , sword and sheild manipulation wauke etc ....


this is what Sanchin is IMHO positional strategy , there is nothing more in it , hence all in sanchin IMHO , people see the one guard where as theres sword and sheild outside/inside , Sanchin guard circular and feeding the maw aka mantis , the draw aka spear for circular etc etc

guard is specific to position and reaction and contact .

same thing applies when you hit the ground .. positional dominance is what guards are all about .

Not many link posture/guards to position , where its the essence of fighting .

this kind of thing/training is exactly what the push hands drills etc should be about and what they seek to establich , positional dominance .

[-Metablade-]

In my experience,
The cat stance with high emphasis on chest/groin and head protection has never failed me even once.



Of course, I'd like to believe that I look cooler that the yahoos in this photo.
(BTW don’t they look like they are about to break down and smooch each other?).

[T W Armstrong]

Fighting postures? Why pose for a fight, better to fight, I prefer my hands to grabbing or striking not in a robotic pose.

Position and movement is dictated by your opponent not by a set strategy. You have to eat off the plate your served.

Fighting is about movement not stances,we karate folk get too focused on perfection of form and the perfect stance/struture at times.

[Dana Sheets]

Meta -
That's fascinating. I've had more than one tournament fighter tell me that they LOVE it when someone is in a cat stance because they know just where your weight is therefore they know what you have to do next to move.

Now - caveat emptor - I'm not a great fighter and my own brother (yondan in Shorin-Ryu) can easily dispatch me in fighting and he often fights cat -> horse -> cat and back again (wicked fast.) But I just wanted to share what I've heard.

So far, little works great for me against men and sparring. Women I'm OK against - but the strength/mass difference in sparring men has proven a difficult puzzle to solve.

-d

[Stryke]

Zoooom

[CANDANeh]

I lean forward slightly and chin down with right shoulder rolled forward and down guarding chin. Not upright at all.
right hand next to face with tucked elbow and left arm "feeling" it`s way ahead of body enhanced by a forward left side blading of body.
Sounds like easy target but haven`t been hurt too bad yet. Creates (for me) aggressive forward and pulling down ability.

[MikeK]

Fighting is about movement not stances,we karate folk get too focused on perfection of form and the perfect stance/struture at times.

Good point Mr.(?) Armstrong. Specific stance and guard seem to work better with sparring, but when the poop hits the fan it's all movement.

[JimHawkins]

I agree with the folks getting at the dynamic element. I don't like the word guard because it seems to imply a static position.

WCK folks are often trained to bring one hand back near the chin <similar to JKD> anytime the other hand attacks and that is a guard, some use this one hand out and one by the chin as a starting position, still this position doesn't stay no matter what happens.

Other WCK folks from an outside pre-engagement distance may bring their hands into the line at near full extension if there is time to do so; this position could also take the form of a modified 'fence'.

Deploying the hands on the line way out in front is akin to launching interceptors from a carrier to move them close to the threat, further away from the ship, for much the same reason. Time to intercept is shorter, as is distance and the 'weapons' fill the space between the threat and the 'ship' forcing threats to go through the 'defense/attack' before they can attack the 'ship' or us.

The most common stance we use is similar to the cat stance with most of the weight on the rear but the neutral stance is also often seen from the outside as is a frequent transition from neutral to lead and back to neutral. I find it ironic that stances are more often thought of as static things. Stances are IMO intended to actually teach movement not stillness.

The various stances, or the guards or other positions should not stay, or be static, rather they should simply aid one in getting and maintaining a positional advantage and the ability to maintain this advantage while being able to generate power and adapt to the opponent's power.

So, IMO regardless of the initial position the hands or the legs or feet take none will stay in any position be it a strike, pin, jam, press, pull, clear, etc, the engagement dynamics should be such that the fighter, in WCK anyway, is always attacking via sticking, issuing energy and changing as is needed to deal with the ever changing opponent.

The only constant in combat is change and change must be and is present in all good things martial.

[Dana Sheets]

Believe me - I don't like the idea of being static (sitting duck).

However even on a good day some men a simply strong enough that even if I do a very good intercepting strike at their strike - they'll still win. In a perfect world I'd always have positioned myself away from the line - but guess what - I ain't perfect yet.

So I need my hands to start someplace for friendly sparring. I find the higher the better since many folks are so socialized to avoid a woman's chest their body pushes their punches higher and they end up zooming towards my throat. I'd much rather block with my head than my throat.

BTW - Stryke - what does

Zoooom

mean?

I mean in dojo training walking towards your oppoenent you generally find yourself putting your hands someplace don't you? Reaching out is a posture - that boxer look with my head down and one hand near my face just doesn't work for me - I don't have enough strength with my elbow that bent to blade through incoming strikes. With my arm in a more sanchin like bend I can use the structure as a wedge and make the power with my legs/body.

Again - against most women this isn't as much of an issue because they isn't such a huge difference in mass and arm strength - but against the guys it gets very frustrating very quickly.

[-Metablade-]

Meta -
That's fascinating. I've had more than one tournament fighter tell me that they LOVE it when someone is in a cat stance because they know just where your weight is therefore they know what you have to do next to move.
-d

Meta:
I'd be inclined to say that whomever said that *might* be looking at the issue as they would like rather than as it is.
I have worn my A$$ for a hat more times than not when I have made the error of underestimating my opponent no matter how goofy the stance looks.

(And I have seen some really goofy stances.)


Example?




But regarding my own stance, I tend to bounce and dance a bit on my toes when in the cat, and as I am partial to kicks, I have always felt that cat stance allows more control over leg switching, ease of off-line movement, and if one kick is blocked, I am often easily positioned to counter with the other leg.
I find as well, that keeping the back leg bent slightly and in a ready state as the front allows me to receive Uke better.

I think your brother has a good idea. I find myself as well switching to horse from cat, especially if executing punches.

[Stryke]

It means you didnt get my post at all and I ****** at articulating it obviously .

guards should be reactionary , in fact it`s the only thing that is IMHO (meaning little or no blocks)

you need to be able to do them all In transition , If you ant because of strentgh issues you need to get stronger and/or accept your limitations , there isnt a one guard fits all solution .

positional dominance is the only tool you have to overcome strength , the guard your discussing does this for circular strikes .

but i`ll drop out at this point , I cant articulate and think i`ve already offended .

[Dana Sheets]

Well I don't know who you think you've offended but it certinally isn't me.

Zoom - I get it - it went over my head - whatever you trying to say.

And yes - I agree that guards need to move and need to transition - but again I say - you gotta start someplace. So is that someplace with your hands down by your sides?
Is it with both of your hands closer to the centerline? Is it with your body 30 percent bladed, 50%?

In a streetfight you won't get these options. In friendly dojo sparring you do. And if the answer is "try and bunch and find what works" well derrr...I'm doing that. That's why I started this thread.

So tell me what works for you. How do you start? You might not stay there very long but you've got to start someplace. (shessh now I sound like a broken record or what?)

[JimHawkins]

However even on a good day some men a simply strong enough that even if I do a very good intercepting strike at their strike - they'll still win.

Why?

"even if I do a very good intercepting strike at their strike"

What does this mean exactly?

In CMA 'striking someone' is secondary to structure destruction, you must take things away from them every step of the way in, you must gain a timing and positional advantage and keep it. This could mean staying a half beat ahead of them move for move; Superior muscle speed/power are not the only ways to get there; Use economy, understand how energy and position relate to control and keep pressuring them, steal beats, steal balance, steal position; use their energy and yours to realize your objective.

In the end each movement you make must take something meaningful away from the opponent's structure and ability to resist, you take things away piece by piece until they cannot issue force and then the rain becomes a flood. Lots of attributes, tactics and training methods that address how to make this 'way of being' part of you..